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WSJ article on Joepa

The "just a legal issue" excuse fails to account for the insane amount of damage PSU is doing to the sport as a whole. They are Michael Vick. Other schools should not want to associate with them. PSU probably has caused the overall sport financial harm and certainly damaged its reputation with non sports fans. The other schools need to distance themselves from the trash that is PSU to prevent damage through association. Not giving the death penalty looks like the NCAA are complacently allowing the absolute worst in college athletics. The NCAA has to come down hard to protect its other institutions financially.
 
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The "just a legal issue" excuse fails to account for the insane amount of damage PSU is doing to the sport as a whole. They are Michael Vick. Other schools should not want to associate with them. PSU probably has caused the overall sport financial harm and certainly damaged its reputation with non sports fans. The other schools need to distance themselves from the trash that is PSU to prevent damage through association. Not giving the death penalty looks like the NCAA are complacently allowing the absolute worst in college athletics. The NCAA has to come down hard to protect its other institutions financially.

On a somewhat related point, I heard that PSU's merchandise sales are down 40% from a year ago at this time.
 
I think it is a fairly big deal when an athletic department takes away the ability for the school to punish players in an attempt to increase the success of the program. They have basically made a section of students unaccountable for their actions, short of being expelled i suppose. How exactly is it punishment if you put a player on suspension but still allow them to play football? Do you think it would be a viable punishment to tell your child he no longer has to perform chores but can still play with friends, etc? I think that is the opposite of effective punishment. And you have fallen into the common fallacy of "this is fairly common so it is no big deal". The list of fairly common occurrences that are in fact big deals, both currently and historically, is too long to mention but lets just leave it at society often accepts what is not correct simply because it is a societal norm. That doesn't inherently lessen the severity of the problem, but rather shows a systemic issue with how society operates. In this case, it illuminates a very large issue with the concept of major college athletics.

I'm not condoning or endorsing such practices. I'm just saying that this type of crap goes on at the tOSUs, FSUs and prolly every SEC school outside of Vandy. Which is why I don't see it as a big deal. Athletes will often receive preferential treatment over other students whether it be in the academic arena or off-field activities. Whereas I would be very surprised if other big football schools are enabling former assistant coaches to diddle little boys on and off campus.
 
penn state was on its high horse as morally superior to all the "other big football schools." that's why this is different.
 
penn state was on its high horse as morally superior to all the "other big football schools." that's why this is different.

This, coupled with the Sandusky coverups are what makes this dwarf anything that the NCAA has previously dealt with
 
penn state was on its high horse as morally superior to all the "other big football schools." that's why this is different.

Bingo.

And it shouldn't be surprising that their athletes got in as much trouble as those of any other school. They pamper them just the same. Make them feel entitled just the same. And the results were probably more or less the same.
 
The "just a legal issue" excuse fails to account for the insane amount of damage PSU is doing to the sport as a whole. They are Michael Vick. Other schools should not want to associate with them. PSU probably has caused the overall sport financial harm and certainly damaged its reputation with non sports fans. The other schools need to distance themselves from the trash that is PSU to prevent damage through association. Not giving the death penalty looks like the NCAA are complacently allowing the absolute worst in college athletics. The NCAA has to come down hard to protect its other institutions financially.

I'm not sure how you can measure that. They've damaged their own brand, without question, but I have yet to hear anybody say they aren't going to buy an Alabama jersey because Sandusky was buggering boys at Penn State. The only leg the NCAA might have to stand on is if they find there was a coverup among the athletic department and within the coaching staff. Even then, that's not a recruiting inducement or something that the NCAA has authority to sanction. It would be a stretch for the NCAA to take that route if they decided to sanction PSU, and it would most certainly be appealed to the NCAA and also in court if they did that. All in all, I don't see that an unprecedented scandal requires an unprecedented punishment.
 
In 2007, as many as two dozen players broke into an off-campus apartment, sparking a melee that captured headlines and prompted the police to file criminal charges against six Penn State football players. "Pretty much the entire Penn State defense broke in and started swinging bar stools and stuff," says John Britt, then a third-year criminal-justice major who was beaten up in the incident. Mr. Britt says he took a beer bottle to the back of the head—and that players apparently continued to beat him after he'd lost consciousness. (Now 25, Mr. Britt serves warrants for state court in Philadelphia.)

Dr. Triponey's department began an inquiry. According to a Penn State employee's record of the proceedings, Mr. Spanier was involved in at least nine meetings with representatives of the judicial-affairs department, and Mr. Paterno was involved in at least six.

In a meeting with Messrs. Paterno and Spanier and others, Dr. Triponey complained that the players were stonewalling her and suggested that Mr. Paterno ought to compel them to be truthful, according to one person familiar with the meeting. Mr. Paterno angrily responded that his players couldn't be expected to cooperate with the school's disciplinary process because, in this case, they would have to testify against each other, making it hard to play football together, these people say.

In the end, police dropped many of the charges against the players, and two pleaded guilty to misdemeanors. The school's inquiry led to four players being suspended for a summer semester. They did not miss any games.

Coach Paterno imposed his own punishment: he said the whole team would spend two hours cleaning up the stadium after home games that fall.
Crazy.
 
If Penn State doesn't get the death penalty with such blatant LOIC then no other school should ever be sanctioned. This really does make the SMU case look like school yard cheating

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
 
I'm not condoning or endorsing such practices. I'm just saying that this type of crap goes on at the tOSUs, FSUs and prolly every SEC school outside of Vandy. Which is why I don't see it as a big deal. Athletes will often receive preferential treatment over other students whether it be in the academic arena or off-field activities. Whereas I would be very surprised if other big football schools are enabling former assistant coaches to diddle little boys on and off campus.

Seriously? The whole "everyone else is doing it so it's not a big deal that we're doing it" argument is total bullshit.
 
The "just a legal issue" excuse fails to account for the insane amount of damage PSU is doing to the sport as a whole. They are Michael Vick. Other schools should not want to associate with them. PSU probably has caused the overall sport financial harm and certainly damaged its reputation with non sports fans. The other schools need to distance themselves from the trash that is PSU to prevent damage through association. Not giving the death penalty looks like the NCAA are complacently allowing the absolute worst in college athletics. The NCAA has to come down hard to protect its other institutions financially.

It will never happen. Giving PSU the death penalty over this article would open up Pandora's box. Make no mistake, the double standard exists everywhere.

Oh, and LOL at the irony of the fucking lemmings calling for Penn State to get the death penalty on this thread being a lot of the same people who said "Gee golly wiz, there must be something going on with this whole Dino Gaudio firing situation that we don't know about."
 
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penn state was on its high horse as morally superior to all the "other big football schools." that's why this is different.

Bingo! I agree that it does go on at most football schools however, a lot of people used to use the words DISCIPLINE, MORALS, etc to differentiate between the two good friends, Bowden and Paterno. At least Bobby was up front and never tried to hide the fact that he tried to "Out-athlete" teams.
 
So this, coupled with the glass houses post, leads me to assume you've got some dirt on Wake football you wouldn't mind sharing.

If you think that athletes at Wake Forest don't get treated differently than other students when it comes to discipline or that our coaches don't want control over the discipline of their players you're kidding yourself. Does Wake do it a lot better than most places? Yeah. What I'm saying is we aren't perfect. The NCAA won't go after Penn State (at least over the contents of the article we're debating in this thread) because it would absolutely open Pandora's box. And yes, I'm saying that Wake Forest is far from being beyond reproach in this department. No specifics needed. Anyone who's been reading the boards for any length of time knows there's always something out there, and it's no different than it was when I was a student at Wake.
 
If you think that athletes at Wake Forest don't get treated differently than other students when it comes to discipline or that our coaches don't want control over the discipline of their players you're kidding yourself. Does Wake do it a lot better than most places? Yeah. What I'm saying is we aren't perfect. The NCAA won't go after Penn State (at least over the contents of the article we're debating in this thread) because it would absolutely open Pandora's box. And yes, I'm saying that Wake Forest is far from being beyond reproach in this department. No specifics needed. Anyone who's been reading the boards for any length of time knows there's always something out there, and it's no different than it was when I was a student at Wake.

First off, i get that all of our athletes aren't mother theresas and billy grahams. I'm not quite as naive as you are suggesting the wake fans here are.

But surely you can understand the inclination of someone like me who reads your posts implying some pretty serious shit, yet an unwillingness to delve further, to think that there's a high probability that you're, well, full of shit.

I happen to believe that doing things largely, even if not completely, the right way, is something to be proud of, especially in the current climate. You don't seem to think so, even to the extent of wanting to refute the good reputation of your alma mater without so much as a specific example to support your claims.
 
Mike, the difference is that it is coupled with the child rape issue. By itself, no it's not enough for major sanctions. All this article lays out is that Paterno controlled the school. I know first hand that Wake athletes get special treatment. A good number of us have enough connections and are realistic enough to know this. When we have a Sandusky issue is when you can use the glass house comment.
 
Mike, the difference is that it is coupled with the child rape issue. By itself, no it's not enough for major sanctions. All this article lays out is that Paterno controlled the school. I know first hand that Wake athletes get special treatment. A good number of us have enough connections and are realistic enough to know this. When we have a Sandusky issue is when you can use the glass house comment.

This. Plus I can't imagine why it bothers you so much that Wake fans are proud of having a pretty darn clean athletic program, historically.
 
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