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Big Donors and [Redacted]'s 4th Year...

deacsrus said:
Not to beat a dead horse, but... With the game tied with 5 minutes to play, Prosser won almost every game. With the game tied with five minutes to play, [Redacted] has lost almost every game. I won't argue that [Redacted] knows more about basketball than Prosser(even Prosser admitted he wasn't a great x and o's coach), but using that knowledge to communicate and motivate your players is the quintessential to coaching. Prosser had the ability "to coach" based on his lengthy track record. [Redacted] has shown from his track record that he does not have the ability "to coach," although [Redacted] might be the more knowledgeable coach.
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Pittsnoggle may take issue with your first sentence.

But the overall point is correct. In most of our wins, we had big leads that we squandered to hold on barely. And my recollection is we lost most of the close games with 5:00 remaining. I'd love to see the stats on how badly we've been outscored in the the last 5:00 of games, especially this past season.
 
woody9186 said:
All I can say is I can't wait until next March when we can all say, "I told you so, Ron." It's gonna be wonderful.
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I hope you are right and am counting down the days, but I am afraid Ron Wellman will say "Year 5, Oh HEAVENS yes!"
 
CreamyGoodness said:
I'm not as far Buzz out as most everyone here but I do wish we had another man at the helm. Having said that, I've heard from a number of sources that the man knows more basketball than anyone they've encountered in the coaching world. This is from other coaches at Wake, coaches and players from other teams, as well as big and small donors from Wake. While I struggle like the rest of you to buy it all, it does explain why a lot of the big Donors are patient and seeking understanding of what it takes to build a team. I imagine most of them have heard the same thing.
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I have no doubts the guy knows the game. It is obvious the guy has no idea how to take knowledge and teach it.
 
They can always just give me $100,000 instead, and still enjoy the same shit show of Bzzball next year.
 
#BuzzOut has had 'whales' behind it for well over a year.

Wellman is close enough to retirement that he doesn't really care.

Its a dangerous dynamic. I hate it for Wake.
 
DeaconOEF/OIFvet said:
They can always just give me $100,000 instead, and still enjoy the same shit show of Bzzball next year.
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I do not know you. I know nothing about you. But I am confident that you could have taken the roster that Buzz had his first year at Wake and won more games than he did.
 
I hope they keep pumping the money in. We're going to need it for the next coach to reconstruct this car wreck.
 
Not if Wellman and Bz ride off into the sunset with Bz' sweet buyout.
 
coredeac said:
Spoke at length with a really big giver the other day. Btw, I'm defining big donor as contributing north of $100,000/year. This person indicated that there are some serious concerns amongst the
whales. However, he also indicated that the athletic department has been preaching to them that Valvano, Dean Smith and Coach K also had great difficulty their first 3-4 years in building their
respective programs. Apparently, they went as far to give specific examples of just how badly Dean and Valvano were treated their first 2-3 years by fans and alums and Buzzy Boy has also had his
feelings hurt.

Thus, Buzz should be given the same length of time as Smith, Valvano and Coach K.

I countered with a number of facts to dispute this approach. However, it is obvious that many of the old guard just bought it completely and we're onto our glorious 4th year of Buzz!

Just curious as to the board's thoughts on this latest act of desperation. Also, anyone else heard the similar theory from any other big givers?
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Below is the records for those first four years of "great difficulty" that the fans of Coach K, Dean, and Jimmy V had to "endure"...

The comparison to Coach K is ridiculous on so many levels.
1980-1981 record 17-13 (beat 3 ranked teams and played 3 games in the NIT)
1981-1982 record 10-17 (beat 1 ranked team)
1982-1983 record 11-17
1983-1984 record 24-10 (beat 3 ranked teams, played for the ACCT Championship and lost in NCAAT round of 32)

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/

There is also not a valid comparison to Dean Smith. Dean Smith only had one losing season (the first) at UNC. One barely losing season out of 36?
1961-1962 record 8-9
1962-1963 record 15-6 (ACCT semi-finals)
1963-1964 record 12-12 (ACCT semi-finals)
1964-1965 record 15-9 (Tied for 2nd place in the regular season)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Carolina_Tar_Heels_men's_basketball_seasons

The comparison to Coach Valvano is is even more ridiculous. He NEVER had a losing season at NCSU and won a NATTY his third year.
1980-1981 record 14-13
1981-1982 record 22-10 (NCAAT first round)
1982-1983 record 26-10 (NCAAT Champions)
1983-1984 record 19-14 (NIT first round)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NC_State_Wolfpack_men's_basketball

Exactly what was the IQ of the individual who compared Buzz the loser to these winning coaches?
 
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There's also no comparison to the state of college basketball 30 and 50 years ago.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
I'm not as far Buzz out as most everyone here but I do wish we had another man at the helm. Having said that, I've heard from a number of sources that the man knows more basketball than anyone they've encountered in the coaching world. This is from other coaches at Wake, coaches and players from other teams, as well as big and small donors from Wake. While I struggle like the rest of you to buy it all, it does explain why a lot of the big Donors are patient and seeking understanding of what it takes to build a team. I imagine most of them have heard the same thing.
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It's not the people with the most knowledge that make the best leaders or teachers. The most knowledgable have a lot of trouble getting what's in their brain out their mouths in a coherent fashion. This seems like (one of) Buzz's problem.
 
tvcigar said:
So the "Big Donor" apparently is a big dummy.
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The troublesome issue is that MORE THAN ONE have bought into the same logic. Only one donor believing this crap isn't going to keep Wellman employed.
Others have as well. That's what is scary.
 
TUA01576 said:
I have no doubts the guy knows the game. It is obvious the guy has no idea how to take knowledge and teach it.
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I don't think it works to talk about "the game." I think Buzz knows a lot about basketball, but high school basketball is different than college, which is different than the NBA. I might could be persuaded that Buzz has a good grasp of bball at the professional level, and had some success there, and certainly got praise from coaches/players at that level. I think he would probably be more successful coaching in the NBA vs. college...but his attitude, expectations of players, management style just isn't tailored to college.

Put another way, knowing "the game" means knowing how to win. Coach K knows college basketball and he wins at Duke. K might also be successful in the NBA, but I guarantee he would have to make some significant adjustments to his coaching "style" to be successful at that level. Whatever Buzz's strengths are they do not translate well to college athletes, which means he's pretty worthless as far as our program is concerned.
 
coredeac said:
The troublesome issue is that MORE THAN ONE have bought into the same logic. Only one donor believing this crap isn't going to keep Wellman employed.
Others have as well. That's what is scary.
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old people
 
If he is such a great basketball mind why doesn't someone hire him away from us? I suspect he is as unhappy as we are having him here. Pitino, K or Cal may say good things but none would consider trading rosters with us. Some outsiders think we should have Bz at Wake but they wouldn't want him at their schools for nothing. The old guard, listens to Wellman and he is willing to revise history when it suits him which is disgraceful.
 
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