Big Donors and [Redacted]'s 4th Year...

[94Deac]

Isn't his daughter a senior next year? Maybe she gets free tuition as part of his contract. She graduates then [Redacted] moves on to coaching the Lakers, Kansas, or takes over for Krzyzewski at Duke.

 

[DeaconBrews]

Isn't his daughter a senior next year? Maybe she gets free tuition as part of his contract. She graduates then [Redacted] moves on to coaching the Lakers, Kansas, or takes over for Krzyzewski at Duke.

she's done.

 

[PhDeac]

If he is such a great basketball mind why doesn't someone hire him away from us? I suspect he is as unhappy as we are having him here. Pitino, K or Cal may say good things but none would consider trading rosters with us. Some outsiders think we should have Bz at Wake but they wouldn't want him at their schools for nothing. The old guard, listens to Wellman and he is willing to revise history when it suits him which is disgraceful.

Sadly, a BuzzOUTer at Colorado thought the same thing.

 

[deaclite]

Funny, but the facts are that Colorado is doing very well with Boyle. So let's move to the post-Bz era as soon as possible.

 

[wfumike02]

I don't think it works to talk about "the game." I think Buzz knows a lot about basketball, but high school basketball is different than college, which is different than the NBA. I might could be persuaded that Buzz has a good grasp of bball at the professional level, and had some success there, and certainly got praise from coaches/players at that level. I think he would probably be more successful coaching in the NBA vs. college...but his attitude, expectations of players, management style just isn't tailored to college.

Put another way, knowing "the game" means knowing how to win. Coach K knows college basketball and he wins at Duke. K might also be successful in the NBA, but I guarantee he would have to make some significant adjustments to his coaching "style" to be successful at that level. Whatever Buzz's strengths are they do not translate well to college athletes, which means he's pretty worthless as far as our program is concerned.

Basically what you're saying is Bz is a far less likeable version of the coach from the movie The Waterboy.

 

[94Deac]

she's done.

Oh well. Duke, Carolina, the Bulls, Lakers, and the U.N. will have to look elsewhere for future leadership.

 

[Ralph Medlin]

Below is the records for those first four years of "great difficulty" that the fans of Coach K, Dean, and Jimmy V had to "endure"...

The comparison to Coach K is ridiculous on so many levels.
1980-1981 record 17-13 (beat 3 ranked teams and played 3 games in the NIT)
1981-1982 record 10-17 (beat 1 ranked team)
1982-1983 record 11-17
1983-1984 record 24-10 (beat 3 ranked teams, played for the ACCT Championship and lost in NCAAT round of 32)

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/

There is also not a valid comparison to Dean Smith. Dean Smith only had one losing season (the first) at UNC. One barely losing season out of 36?
1961-1962 record 8-9
1962-1963 record 15-6 (ACCT semi-finals)
1963-1964 record 12-12 (ACCT semi-finals)
1964-1965 record 15-9 (Tied for 2nd place in the regular season)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Carolina_Tar_Heels_men's_basketball_seasons

The comparison to Coach Valvano is is even more ridiculous. He NEVER had a losing season at NCSU and won a NATTY his third year.
1980-1981 record 14-13
1981-1982 record 22-10 (NCAAT first round)
1982-1983 record 26-10 (NCAAT Champions)
1983-1984 record 19-14 (NIT first round)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NC_State_Wolfpack_men's_basketball

Exactly what was the IQ of the individual who compared Buzz the loser to these winning coaches?

Good work. This needs to be archived to send to the Andy Katzes and Seth Davises of the world when the season rolls around and the Atheltic Department puts the K, Deano, Jimmy V. spin on Buzz's tenure...

 

[Ralph Medlin]

So the "Big Donor" apparently is a big dummy.

 

[Brangus]

Part of the problem is our old rich guys see Wake losing as the norm and significant success as a breathtaking anomaly that shouldn't be expected more than once a decade (LOWF syndrome). Graduates from 1995 to the present (I'm generalizing as to that range) expect a higher standard, but we can't write the big checks (yet).

 

[cville deac]

Part of the problem is our old rich guys see Wake losing as the norm and significant success as a breathtaking anomaly that shouldn't be expected more than once a decade (LOWF syndrome). Graduates from 1995 to the present (I'm generalizing as to that range) expect a higher standard, but we can't write the big checks (yet).

Then some of my older Wake brethren are not accurately recalling our hoops history. We had some real good teams in the 50s-mid 60s (including our final-4), the mid 70s-mid 80s and a darn good run from 1990-2010 (14 NCAAs and 4 NITs in a 20 year span). Having Wake suck for 3 years in a row is the exception, not the rule. We had 5 losing seasons in a row for Staak's 4 years plus Odom's 1st (when the ACC was at its zenith), Tacy had some .500 years to start, and McClosky had 3 losing seasons in a row. But that's it going back 50+ years. Wellman and Buzzdick have killed a once thriving enterprise - no 2 ways about it.

 

[Shorty]

Part of the problem is our old rich guys see Wake losing as the norm and significant success as a breathtaking anomaly that shouldn't be expected more than once a decade (LOWF syndrome). Graduates from 1995 to the present (I'm generalizing as to that range) expect a higher standard, but we can't write the big checks (yet).

Maybe in football, but definitely not in basketball.

 

[Complacent Deac]

It seems like fall tailgates may be a good time to converse with some of the big donors and politely let them know how fucking stupid it is to buy this bullshit argument being put forth by Wellman and the athl dept.

QUOTE=coredeac;1299009]Spoke at length with a really big giver the other day. Btw, I'm defining big donor as contributing north of $100,000/year. This person indicated that there are some serious concerns amongst the
whales. However, he also indicated that the athletic department has been preaching to them that Valvano, Dean Smith and Coach K also had great difficulty their first 3-4 years in building their
respective programs. Apparently, they went as far to give specific examples of just how badly Dean and Valvano were treated their first 2-3 years by fans and alums and Buzzy Boy has also had his
feelings hurt.

Thus, Buzz should be given the same length of time as Smith, Valvano and Coach K.

I countered with a number of facts to dispute this approach. However, it is obvious that many of the old guard just bought it completely and we're onto our glorious 4th year of Buzz!

Just curious as to the board's thoughts on this latest act of desperation. Also, anyone else heard the similar theory from any other big givers?[/QUOTE]

 

[TheReff]

Spoke at length with a really big giver the other day. Btw, I'm defining big donor as contributing north of $100,000/year. This person indicated that there are some serious concerns amongst the
whales. However, he also indicated that the athletic department has been preaching to them that Valvano, Dean Smith and Coach K also had great difficulty their first 3-4 years in building their
respective programs. Apparently, they went as far to give specific examples of just how badly Dean and Valvano were treated their first 2-3 years by fans and alums and Buzzy Boy has also had his
feelings hurt.

Thus, Buzz should be given the same length of time as Smith, Valvano and Coach K.

I countered with a number of facts to dispute this approach. However, it is obvious that many of the old guard just bought it completely and we're onto our glorious 4th year of Buzz!

Just curious as to the board's thoughts on this latest act of desperation. Also, anyone else heard the similar theory from any other big givers?

Technically, they could be right they hope as Dean was hung in effigy right out of the gate and everybody thought K was the wrong choice early on until the class of Amaker, Bilas et al got over taking their lumps and started on the road. Kind of like Tacy did over with Frank & the 4 Freshmen. People do forget that Gentleman Carl beat Coach K the first 9 times they played. I believe CT was the last guy in the ACC that K beat. Then GDO came along in the Chill-Timmy era & beat K 9 times in a row again. I can't recall Valvano & his start.

But that was also the time when players stayed 4 years and a coach could build on his classes. That is not true now and we have gotten rid of the talented "weeds" and those that could not put their socks on correctly, so we can kind of see where this ends.

 

[94Deac]

Then some of my older Wake brethren are not accurately recalling our hoops history. We had some real good teams in the 50s-mid 60s (including our final-4), the mid 70s-mid 80s and a darn good run from 1990-2010 (14 NCAAs and 4 NITs in a 20 year span). Having Wake suck for 3 years in a row is the exception, not the rule. We had 5 losing seasons in a row for Staak's 4 years plus Odom's 1st (when the ACC was at its zenith), Tacy had some .500 years to start, and McClosky had 3 losing seasons in a row. But that's it going back 50+ years. Wellman and Buzzdick have killed a once thriving enterprise - no 2 ways about it.

I understand your point but this underscores where our expectations are. Frankly, at the kinds of schools we'd like Wake to compete with every year, this list would be disappointing. We're talking about "making the NCAAs and a few NITs; avoiding consecutive losing seasons; and a single Final Four 51 years ago." Our historical bar isn't as high as a lot of people, WF fans and otherwise, think it is. That may be the reason the landed Deacon gentry may not really mind the recent "troubles."

 

[HeavyPetter]

Technically, they could be right they hope as Dean was hung in effigy right out of the gate and everybody thought K was the wrong choice early on until the class of Amaker, Bilas et al got over taking their lumps and started on the road.

The '82 class was Dawkins, Alarie, Bilas and Henderson. Amaker was an '83 recruit.

The problem is that Bzz has recruited nothing like this. His best player so far is Devin Thomas (imo) and his freshman year numbers look like Jay Bilas's.

 

[deacz]

Bz's record prior to Wake squashes any ridiculous comparison to K, Dean, etc.

 

[gfspencer]

Part of the problem is our old rich guys see Wake losing as the norm and significant success as a breathtaking anomaly that shouldn't be expected more than once a decade (LOWF syndrome). Graduates from 1995 to the present (I'm generalizing as to that range) expect a higher standard, but we can't write the big checks (yet).

I'm old . . . but I am not rich. When it comes to football I see the norm as loosing. (I went to Wake in the 60's when we didn't expect to win. We were just happy to score.) But I always expect our basketball teams to win . . . or at least put up a good fight.

 

[wfunme]

Too much damage control from the administration equals a really bad hire. Let it go and let's move on with a proper coach.