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Bob Knight: the NBA has "raped" college basketball

DeacdeTejas said:
I dont think the MLB rule hastens those problems. I dont think the amount of kids that jump is as high as you would think. For example would we realistically have had more than 6-8 guys declare this year? And would college basketball really have suffered without them?
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I was just talking about the sure fire lotto picks. With a 3 year rule people would absolutely go NBDL or Europe as well.

And yes CBB hypes the hell out of these players.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
I was just talking about the sure fire lotto picks. With a 3 year rule people would absolutely go NBDL or Europe as well.

And yes CBB hypes the hell out of these players.
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Yes CBB hyped Wiggins and Parker this year. But if the rule exists and those guys are there then the NCAA does what it has always done and find another one of the thousands of CBB players to hype.
 
bobknightfan said:
This. College basketball doesn't need these guys (early outs). It would do just fine without them. The competetion & the teams are what is important to the fans....rather than a handful of players who think they are more important than the game itself. As a matter of fact, it would be better off without them, because you would have roster continuity on the college teams and fans would have more time to bond with the players on their respective teams. What college basketball has now is a total mess. The NBA is using it as a free talent evaluation developmental league....to the detriment of college basketball.
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I don't disagree with this. That makes me feel a little dirty.
 
bobknightfan said:
This. College basketball doesn't need these guys (early outs). It would do just fine without them. The competetion & the teams are what is important to the fans....rather than a handful of players who think they are bigger than the game itself. As a matter of fact, it would be better off without them, because you would have roster continuity on the college teams and fans would have more time to bond with the players on their respective teams. What college basketball has now is a total mess. The NBA is using it as a free talent evaluation developmental league....to the detriment of college basketball.

How many players are there in college basketball today? If you took 10 players on 250 teams...just to use a random number...that's 2,500 players. How many of those 2,500 are potential early entries? 25? 50?...if that many? That's less than 2%...probably less than 1%... of all the players in college basketball. Does someone like PH...or anyone else...really think that college basketball would just collapse and fans would lose all interest in the rivalries & their respective teams if that tiny group of the players was never part of the college game? That's crazy. Fans go to a Duke/Carolina game to see Duke play Carolina. If a couple of big stars had never gone to those two schools, the fans at that game wouldn't even miss them. The show would just go right on. They would be cheering for the players on their team who were there. As DeacdeTejas correctly stated....if those players weren't there, there would be hundreds more to pick from to hype as stars on the various college teams. The game is bigger than any player or players....no matter how good they are. If the fans want to see those players, they can watch the NBA. That's the proper place for professional players....not on college teams.
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I can't disagree with anything bobbyboy just said. First time for everything I reckon.
 
bobknightfan said:
This. College basketball doesn't need these guys (early outs). It would do just fine without them. The competetion & the teams are what is important to the fans....rather than a handful of players who think they are bigger than the game itself. As a matter of fact, it would be better off without them, because you would have roster continuity on the college teams and fans would have more time to bond with the players on their respective teams. What college basketball has now is a total mess. The NBA is using it as a free talent evaluation developmental league....to the detriment of college basketball.

How many players are there in college basketball today? If you took 10 players on 250 teams...just to use a random number...that's 2,500 players. How many of those 2,500 are potential early entries? 25? 50?...if that many? That's less than 2%...probably less than 1%... of all the players in college basketball. Does someone like PH...or anyone else...really think that college basketball would just collapse and fans would lose all interest in the rivalries & their respective teams if that tiny group of the players was never part of the college game? That's crazy. Fans go to a Duke/Carolina game to see Duke play Carolina. If a couple of big stars had never gone to those two schools, the fans at that game wouldn't even miss them. The show would just go right on. They would be cheering for the players on their team who were there. As DeacdeTejas correctly stated....if those players weren't there, there would be hundreds more to pick from to hype as stars on the various college teams. The game is bigger than any player or players....no matter how good they are. If the fans want to see those players, they can watch the NBA. That's the proper place for professional players....not on college teams.
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Good post, bkf. It seems like a lot of folks are in agreement on this issue, but coming at it from a lot of different angles.

That said, you tend to direct a lot of hostility towards the NBA and the players. I can't buy in to that. If college basketball is broken, then it's college basketball's fault. The NBA sets the rules in the interest of limiting immature or undeveloped players; the NCAA, on the other hand, is motivated by pure greed.

Given this post, it sounds like you should redirect your hostility toward the NCAA or other non-profit organizations that profit mightily by keeping these guys around.
 
So NBA capable players should be allowed to play in the NBA, of course they should. The question is why should players with professional capability should be forced to play 4 years? Claiming that the lack of roster continuity at the very top level of college basketball is in any way ruining the sport is disingenuous at best. Old people don't like change, if it wasn't "one and dones", it would be "thunder dunks", it would be athlete GPAs, it would be the 3 point shot, or the shot clock. College teams are supposed to represent their schools, and last time I checked, the students at those schools are not forced to graduate from their schools, and are allowed to pursue professional opportunities as they please.

The problem that I think needs to be addressed is how players are virtually incapable of going through the draft process and maintain their amateur status. I think the NBA should be subsidizing the draft process, and the NCAA coordinating with the NBA so that players who go undrafted are able to come back to school.
 
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Fuck Your Couch said:
The players DEFINITELY don't want to be on a rookie contract for 8 freaking years. And the GMs don't want to be on the hook for a relatively unknown player for 8 freaking years in most cases.
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Note that the current players don't want the to be rooks getting paid since that takes a piece out of their pie.
 
palmab03 said:
Note that the current players don't want the to be rooks getting paid since that takes a piece out of their pie.
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The agents pull big strings in these negotiations and they DEFINITELY don't want their clients on rookie contracts for 8 freaking years. Anyway the GMs just fought tooth and nail to reduce the max length of contracts to 4 and 5 years.

AND during the last negotiation they put in a clause to get out of the rookie contracts even earlier if you make an All Star game or something. Derrick Rose rule.
 
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All in all most of these solutions are massive and would evoke the rule of unintended consequences for a minor problem IMO. The tournament was great last week. I love the NBA. Status quo is fine by me. You want to add a year to the rule? Fine.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
All in all most of these solutions are massive and would evoke the rule of unintended consequences for a minor problem IMO. The tournament was great last week. I love the NBA. Status quo is fine by me. You want to add a year to the rule? Fine.
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I generally agree, but I would get rid of the one-year rule. It's stupid.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
The problem that I think needs to be addressed is how players are virtually incapable of going through the draft process and maintain their amateur status. I think the NBA should be subsidizing the draft process, and the NCAA coordinating with the NBA so that players who go undrafted are able to come back to school.
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This may be a dumb question, but who decides that you have to “declare” for the draft in certain sports, and then are no longer eligible to play in college? That seems like something the NCAA would have to enforce, but it mainly benefits the teams, right? (And it is clearly not consistent across leagues.)
 
avalon said:
This may be a dumb question, but who decides that you have to “declare” for the draft in certain sports, and then are no longer eligible to play in college? That seems like something the NCAA would have to enforce, but it mainly benefits the teams, right? (And it is clearly not consistent across leagues.)
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I think hiring an agent is the kicker in the most instances. I'm not familiar with how baseball operates though.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I think hiring an agent is the kicker in the most instances. I'm not familiar with how baseball operates though.
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The problem is that the players union (run by agents) has made it nearly impossible to go through the draft process without an agent, and basically just speaking with an agent makes you ineligible for college sports. Its even more ridiculous when you factor in that you can be a professional in virtually any other venue besides the sport you play ; Pro baseball players are eligible for college basketball and football.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I think hiring an agent is the kicker in the most instances. I'm not familiar with how baseball operates though.
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They can "advise" but not negotiate. (Which everyone ignores, including the NCAA.) In the NHL, players are drafted and can go to college, and the team retains their rights until they graduate.

Looking at wiki, it seems like the NCAA sets up the timeline to ensure that colleges have time to recruit other players. I guess that explains why the college teams would want the rule.
 
DeacdeTejas said:
Yes CBB hyped Wiggins and Parker this year. But if the rule exists and those guys are there then the NCAA does what it has always done and find another one of the thousands of CBB players to hype.
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Exactly. Would have been someone like TJ Warren or Doug McDermott. And to me it can be more enjoyable watching stars who have been at their school for a while, school seems to rally around them more.
 
First and foremost, Bobby should just cease using the word "rape".

Second, I've long been in favor of going to the baseball rule when it comes to the NBA. If you go to college, you can't go to the NBA for 3 years. You can leave early for Europe/Asia or the NBADL, just not the NBA. And if you're a hot shite HS hoopster who doesn't want to go to college, you can bypass college, ala LaBron, and go straight to the NBA/NBADL/Europe. But that's the decision you make right out of HS - college track or NBA track. I believe it would make for a better quality of NBA and NCAA hoops, and you'd rid the college world of kids who maybe go to classes for 1 semester. Jay Bilas agrees.
 
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