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Collins to test NBA, update: he has signed an agent, per Jeff Goodman

RChildress107 said:
Are we seriously arguing whether any subset of football players has a higher career threatening injury rate than a similar subset of basketball players.

Ph, read the chart, use your brain, extrapolate to career ending injuries, take the L, and shut the fuck up about it.
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RChildress107 said:
This whole injury discussion is stupid to begin with. As a general rule 20 year old basketball players don't suffer career ending injuries on the court. We could extend this thread 100 more pages and probably only come up with a handful of examples (if that) of a basketball related career ending injury to a player that young in the past 20 years.

The worst case scenario for Collins would be to suffer a season ending injury over the summer and then have to decide whether to play his senior year to try and get back into the mid first round or just go after the year off and hope a team that liked him this year will take him in the late first early second.

The injury risk of coming back isn't nothing but it shouldn't be that much of a factor in the decision making process.
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You want me to take an L then you award me the W in the next post.
 
And it had everything to do with why it's not worth worrying about career threatening injuries.
 
RChildress107 said:
Are we seriously arguing whether any subset of football players has a higher career threatening injury rate than a similar subset of basketball players.

Ph, read the chart, use your brain, extrapolate to career ending injuries, take the L, and shut the fuck up about it.
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this. now ph is arguing about whether or not he was arguing about this argument.
 
It's not just about a career ending injury. If JC would get injured and miss a part of next year, his draft stock could drop several slots. Wake would pay for the catastrophic insurance, but would they pay for the slot insurance? Also this would cause a totally wasted year.

Again, this year has far fewer quality bigs than next year has.

I would JC to come back, but it's best for him to leave.
 
RJKarl said:
It's not just about a career ending injury. If JC would get injured and miss a part of next year, his draft stock could drop several slots. Wake would pay for the catastrophic insurance, but would they pay for the slot insurance? Also this would cause a totally wasted year.

Again, this year has far fewer quality bigs than next year has.

I would JC to come back, but it's best for him to leave.
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The chances of him moving up due to fixing the holes in his game and a generally weaker draft class are certainly much higher than his stock dropping due to injury.

Saying it's best for him to leave or not leave is idiotic. You don't know him. You don't know what his goals are, his values, his tolerance for risk, his financial situation, his relationships with his coaches and teammates, etc.
 
RJKarl said:
It's not just about a career ending injury. If JC would get injured and miss a part of next year, his draft stock could drop several slots. Wake would pay for the catastrophic insurance, but would they pay for the slot insurance? Also this would cause a totally wasted year.

Again, this year has far fewer quality bigs than next year has.

I would JC to come back, but it's best for him to leave.
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Collins could qualify for both Permanent Total Disability and Loss of Value insurance, which would protect him against both a career ending injury, as well as if he failed to meet a certain threshold of money over "X" amount of years due to injury.

There is money allocated and allowed in the NCAA Student-Athlete Assistance Fund that allows the school to pay for this for the student. All the big boys do it in basketball and football and it's certainly a competitive advantage when they come to the table with the player and they are on the fence.
 
RChildress107 said:
The chances of him moving up due to fixing the holes in his game and a generally weaker draft class are certainly much higher than his stock dropping due to injury.

Saying it's best for him to leave or not leave is idiotic. You don't know him. You don't know what his goals are, his values, his tolerance for risk, his financial situation, his relationships with his coaches and teammates, etc.
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It's not about the "generally weaker draft class". It's really about having more people at his position to compete with in each year. Right now Draft Express has JC as the third big picked this year behind only Markanen and Jarrett Allen (which I find very curious as why would the Pistons take him when they have Drummond). Even if you put Patton ahead of JC, there aren't many bigs ahead of him. As opposed to a big laden class of next year, the defection of Robert Williams and Zach Collins likely improvement.

What's idiotic is not to include an apples to apples comparison of the talent at his position in making an assessment.

It's also idiotic not to include the likelihood that his numbers will go down even with his improvement to Wake having a better team.

The difference between us is I hadn't terms like "idiotic" but then again I don't have to believe myself to be superior.
 
jaybone said:
If I am not mistaken, John Collins, if he chose to return to Wake, can take out an insurance policy and Wake CAN pay the premiums for the year as long as Collins and Wake enter a contract for Collins to pay Wake back upon signing of his pro contract. This draft is so strong, it is an interesting choice. Stay in the draft and go anywhere from 15-30 or go through the process, come back to college and at the risk of a serious injury, try and improve your draft stock in what is projected to be a much weaker draft. He could also anticipate a year in which Wake would get a lot of exposure and he would be a media focus.
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That exposure could be worth hundreds of millions
 
RJKarl said:
It's not about the "generally weaker draft class". It's really about having more people at his position to compete with in each year. Right now Draft Express has JC as the third big picked this year behind only Markanen and Jarrett Allen (which I find very curious as why would the Pistons take him when they have Drummond). Even if you put Patton ahead of JC, there aren't many bigs ahead of him. As opposed to a big laden class of next year, the defection of Robert Williams and Zach Collins likely improvement.

What's idiotic is not to include an apples to apples comparison of the talent at his position in making an assessment.

It's also idiotic not to include the likelihood that his numbers will go down even with his improvement to Wake having a better team.

The difference between us is I hadn't terms like "idiotic" but then again I don't have to believe myself to be superior.
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The point is that you have no idea what factors are important to him so you should just stop making conclusions.
 
scooter84 said:
The point is that you have no idea what factors are important to him so you should just stop making conclusions.
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This entire thread is about people having opinions about this issue. In your world, I'm the only one not allowed to do this. Got it!
 
It's better to be the 8th big and 12th overall in a draft with weak guards and wings than the 4th big and 18th overall in a draft with historically good guards and wings.

The NBA draft isn't remotely as need-based as the NFL draft.
 
RJKarl said:
This entire thread is about people having opinions about this issue. In your world, I'm the only one not allowed to do this. Got it!
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Any opinion on "what's best for JC" is baseless. Opine all you want on what factors you think might go into his decision and how those factors might point one way or the other, but don't pretend like you or anyone else on this board knows what he's thinking or what's best for him.
 
RChildress107 said:
It's better to be the 8th big and 12th overall in a draft with weak guards and wings than the 4th big and 18th overall in a draft with historically good guards and wings.

The NBA draft isn't remotely as need-based as the NFL draft.
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That's a negligible difference in money and would likely cost him money over his career. This chart shows the difference last year for #12 vs. #18 as about $2.6M (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/06/2016-nba-rookie-salaries-contracts-first-round-picks.html ). Even if this number increases by 50% (which is unlikely), it would only be $4M. A dozen years from now (hell now) $4M is well below an average NBA salary and even below the mid-level exception.
 
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