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Country Dan on Dave Glenn Now

88Deac said:
Does anyone seriously think Dino would have fared any better in Buzz's first season than Buzz? We had nothing after TW "left." I'd love to hear the argument that Dino would have done well had he not been fired. Buzz started with Ari Stewart as his best returning player. What have Ari, JTT, Carson, Tabb, TC et al done as upper classmen, and what would you have expected from them with Dino as freshmen? They are mostly backups or worse as upperclassmen. JTT has shown some life in his later years, but really? I mean, seriously? Other than McKie, there was nothing there of starting ACC caliber. And apparently no one can get Ari to do anything other than jack up shots and light up. No one can argue that Buzz has not recruited well enough, and that is his biggest downfall. Really only one strong recruiting class in 4 years. That doesn't cut it. RW should fire him for that alone at this point, even if he thinks he is a good coach, which he has shown in 4 years he is not. Even Dan agrees you had to give Buzz a pass the first 2 years because Dino left him with nothing. But 4 years is enough for any coach to do a lot more than Buzz, especially in recruiting and to get more than 6 ACC wins and 2 road wins.

Relax. RW is not as idiotic as one might think. Buzz is not coming back. There is no possible way he will.
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The fact that he hired [Redacted] in the first place means he is absolutely as idiotic as we think.
 
88Deac said:
Does anyone seriously think Dino would have fared any better in Buzz's first season than Buzz? We had nothing after TW "left." I'd love to hear the argument that Dino would have done well had he not been fired. Buzz started with Ari Stewart as his best returning player. What have Ari, JTT, Carson, Tabb, TC et al done as upper classmen, and what would you have expected from them with Dino as freshmen? They are mostly backups or worse as upperclassmen. JTT has shown some life in his later years, but really? I mean, seriously? Other than McKie, there was nothing there of starting ACC caliber. And apparently no one can get Ari to do anything other than jack up shots and light up. No one can argue that Buzz has not recruited well enough, and that is his biggest downfall. Really only one strong recruiting class in 4 years. That doesn't cut it. RW should fire him for that alone at this point, even if he thinks he is a good coach, which he has shown in 4 years he is not. Even Dan agrees you had to give Buzz a pass the first 2 years because Dino left him with nothing. But 4 years is enough for any coach to do a lot more than Buzz, especially in recruiting and to get more than 6 ACC wins and 2 road wins.

Relax. RW is not as idiotic as one might think. Buzz is not coming back. There is no possible way he will.
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I agree with you, but C.J. Harris says hello
 
Yes, don't know how I forgot one of my all-time favorites, but unfortunately he had to move over to PG because TC got hurt and then (TC) was never any good that year. CJ just isn't a good PG. Great 2G.
 
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The fact RW hired [Redacted] when he said March success was a must means, to me, RW struck out with his first 2-6 choices. But he can't say that publicly.

If RW retains Buzz, I will contribute to the Buzz and RW Out billboards.
 
The Stig said:
Dino would not have lost to Stetson. End discussion.
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With that team, yes he would have:

CJ Harris (1st game as PG?), G$, Ari, Travis (1st game), Carson (1st game). JTT off the bench at 2 (1st game) Had Tabb already been suspended? TC was already hurt if I recall.
 
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88Deac said:
Does anyone seriously think Dino would have fared any better in Buzz's first season than Buzz? We had nothing after TW "left." I'd love to hear the argument that Dino would have done well had he not been fired. Buzz started with Ari Stewart as his best returning player. What have Ari, JTT, Carson, Tabb, TC et al done as upper classmen, and what would you have expected from them with Dino as freshmen? They are mostly backups or worse as upperclassmen. JTT has shown some life in his later years, but really? I mean, seriously? Other than McKie, there was nothing there of starting ACC caliber. And apparently no one can get Ari to do anything other than jack up shots and light up. No one can argue that Buzz has not recruited well enough, and that is his biggest downfall. Really only one strong recruiting class in 4 years. That doesn't cut it. RW should fire him for that alone at this point, even if he thinks he is a good coach, which he has shown in 4 years he is not. Even Dan agrees you had to give Buzz a pass the first 2 years because Dino left him with nothing. But 4 years is enough for any coach to do a lot more than Buzz, especially in recruiting and to get more than 6 ACC wins and 2 road wins.

Relax. RW is not as idiotic as one might think. Buzz is not coming back. There is no possible way he will.
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Maybe he wouldn't have, in which case, his termination would have been justified. But this is all hypothetical.
 
Racer -

Exactly, and in the new ACC, a good chunk of the "elite" or almost elite places you could go aren't an option. UNC, Duke, Cuse, Louisville are off the table. If you coach at Wake and have great success, there really are only a few places you could possible go that would be "up", and to get offers for those jobs, you'd already have Wake competing with those programs night in and night out. Skip looked at Pitt, but that's his hometown. Odom didn't get an offer from a bigger job...he had to go looking for another job or be fired. Anything coaches before that don't really matter because the landscape wasn't comparable.

Despite the Buzz error, since Odom started in 1989, Wake is still ranked #22 in Top 25 appearances, #23 in Top 10 appearances, #25 in Top 5 appearances, and #23 in #1 appearances. For the more recent years during which Skip and Dino coached, Wake was #15 in Top 25, #15 in the Top 10, #17 in Top 5, and #15 in #1 appearances. 4 of the teams (UNC, Duke, Pitt, Cuse) consistently ahead of us in those rankings are in the ACC, and Louisville hovers right around where we are. So, that leaves less than 10 jobs that would be steps up that aren't in the ACC.
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While not all-in on the premis, must kudo you for backing up your POV with some solid evidence here.

But I could see a guy easily being inticed to jump to an Illinois from Wake. Probably a poor analogy but Larry Brown took on a challenge with SMU....maybe saw the possibilities for building a winner while getting pretty good coin.
 
88Deac said:
The fact RW hired [Redacted] when he said March success was a must means, to me, RW struck out with his first 2-6 choices. But he can't say that publicly.

If RW retains Buzz, I will contribute to the Buzz and RW Out billboards.
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Well, sure, if you keep making up excuses in your head for why Wellman isn't an idiot then he will never look like an idiot to you.


I would argue that the man would be an idiot if he let some silly fucking billboards influence a million plus dollar decision. Are you even fucking serious with this shite? It's utterly nonsensical.
 
where is Dan?????

Conspiracy: Hopefully wellman and his donor friends did not pressure the Journal to encourage Dan to take a couple weeks off
 
Deacondoc said:
where is Dan?????

Conspiracy: Hopefully wellman and his donor friends did not pressure the Journal to encourage Dan to take a couple weeks off
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There's nothing to report. Just cuz we're melting down doesn't mean he is. to him it's just another day at the office.
 
It's not another day at the office. He should be chasing this story and mining sources cultivated over 20 years. The institution he covers is about to fire a coach or retain a horrible coach. Either is a story.

Just because the administration isn't putting out press releases or holding press conferences doesn't mean Collins gets a pass. Good reporters don't need press releases or press conferences to write stories.


But he's Dan Collins so he's out raking leaves.
 
deacvision7 said:
Well, sure, if you keep making up excuses in your head for why Wellman isn't an idiot then he will never look like an idiot to you.


I would argue that the man would be an idiot if he let some silly fucking billboards influence a million plus dollar decision. Are you even fucking serious with this shite? It's utterly nonsensical.
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The point is that it ISN'T going to happen. I think the billboards are asinine. But the [Redacted] tenure is over. There is no way he can bring him back, and he won't. No one is that stupid. RW is stubborn and a lot of things, but not stupid.
 
Dino inherited a team with Hale, Johnson, Chas, Skeen, Ish, Cam, Teague, Weaver and LD.

Dino lost 4 of his last 5 regular season games with that team to finish, wait for it, 7-9 in the ACC, and 17-13 overall. Only one of those last regular season losses was to a ranked team.

Then Dino followed that up with a double digit ACCT loss to FSU. 3 NBA players, and one guy who was a huge piece of a team which went to a FF with another school, and yet, sub .500 in the conference, and first round drubbing in the ACCT. Nice work.

Then, in his last season at Wake, Dino had AFA, CJ, Chas, Ish, Ari, Ty, Weaver, LD, and Woods.

Dino again lost 4 of his last 5 regular season games to finish 9-7 in the ACC. Then got trounced by last place, 4-12, Miami in the first round of the ACCT by, wait for it, 21 points. And the game was really not that close.

We then played in one of the ugliest NCAAT games against a Texas team that was fading as badly as we were down the stretch, before getting beaten by 30 against Kentucky.

Then Dino followed that up by leaving us with a team of 5 freshmen (4 of whom have been career backups or worse at other places), a completely undisciplined and self-absorbed Ari Stewart, G$, Nikita, and, thank God, CJ.

Dino ran us into the fucking ground. And Buzz hasn't done nearly enough in 4 years to bring us out of it. Why is that so hard to understand?
 
88Deac said:
Dino inherited a team with Hale, Johnson, Chas, Skeen, Ish, Cam, Teague, Weaver and LD.

Dino lost 4 of his last 5 regular season games with that team to finish, wait for it, 7-9 in the ACC, and 17-13 overall. Only one of those last regular season losses was to a ranked team.

Then Dino followed that up with a double digit ACCT loss to FSU. 3 NBA players, and one guy who was a huge piece of a team which went to a FF with another school, and yet, sub .500 in the conference, and first round drubbing in the ACCT. Nice work.

Then, in his last season at Wake, Dino had AFA, CJ, Chas, Ish, Ari, Ty, Weaver, LD, and Woods.

Dino again lost 4 of his last 5 regular season games to finish 9-7 in the ACC. Then got trounced by last place, 4-12, Miami in the first round of the ACCT by, wait for it, 21 points. And the game was really not that close.

We then played in one of the ugliest NCAAT games against a Texas team that was fading as badly as we were down the stretch, before getting beaten by 30 against Kentucky.

Then Dino followed that up by leaving us with a team of 5 freshmen (4 of whom have been career backups or worse at other places), a completely undisciplined and self-absorbed Ari Stewart, G$, Nikita, and, thank God, CJ. And CJ and Ari were recruited when Skip was HC, so you can't even give him credit for bringing in CJ.

Dino ran us into the fucking ground. And Buzz hasn't done nearly enough in 4 years to bring us out of it. Why is that so hard to understand?
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Your 50/50 hindsight is impressive. I'm looking forward to your take on the Buzz-era.

Also, do you still think that 2013-2014 Madison and Codi were our best backcourt ever?
 
Dino was not a good coach, but he didn't run us into the ground. Be serious. There's a major difference between his effect on the program and Buzz's.
 
Please tell me what I have wrong about those facts? I looked up the records, the rosters and schedules. What do I have wrong?!? Please elaborate.

I pretty much run lock step with Dan on the Buzz era. First two years he got a pass because Dino left things so bad. But Buzz's biggest problems are that he hasn't recruited nearly well enough in 4 years, he is not a leader or motivator or able to get his teams up to play hard. His teams are soft. Those are VERY bad flaws and he has to be let go. Now.

Dino was horrible and still has no coaching job.
 
Dino's worst team finished 47 spots above [Redacted]'s best team in KenPom.

End of discussion.
 
Strickland33 said:
Your 50/50 hindsight is impressive. I'm looking forward to your take on the Buzz-era.

Also, do you still think that 2013-2014 Madison and Codi were our best backcourt ever?
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When did I ever say Madison and Codi were our best backcourt? Codi is OK and getting better and has a high upside, but Madison is likely to be a backup next year. Those two are not in our top 25 best backcourts. Would love if Codi and Shelton develop into a top flight backcourt, but have never seen Shelton play even in HS.
 
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