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Danny Manning Credibility Watch Thread Credibility Watch

Strickland33 said:
How is being middle of the pack in the ACC pouring cold water on everything? We have been fighting to stay out of last place for the last seven years, so I would say that being middle of the pack is actually a pretty big deal. I don't think Ph would disagree. We're nowhere near the top tier, but we appear to be making some progress.

Any measure that puts UCLA and Wake at more or less the same tier is seriously flawed. I don't care how you're using it. Don't use it.
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RPI is pretty worthless, but it's actually closer to measuring the "I don't care about margin of victory" viewpoint that many on here are advocating.
 
RChildress107 said:
RPI is pretty worthless, but it's actually closer to measuring the "I don't care about margin of victory" viewpoint that many on here are advocating.
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Who are the many advocating the "I don't care about margin of victory" viewpoint on here?

ETA: I ask because I think that the answer is 0. I hear a lot of folks bemoaning the moral victory rhetoric that was common on here for years (and that I espoused on quite a few occasions during [name redacted]'s first season and a half), but I don't hear anybody saying that they don't care about margin of victory. Really small and really large margins of victory makes losses hurt worse, even if really small margins of victory losses hurt us less in the algorithms.
 
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RChildress107 said:
Has Manning met expectations thus far.
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I'm sure OGB can track down a post where I articulated my expectations, but iirc, my expectations were pretty low. Without Chaundee Brown, I would probably think he was a subpar recruiter. With Chaundee, he is performing more or less to my expectations. As to wins and losses: I had a feeling that it would take Manning some time to win here because of his lack of a resume and the fact that Conference USA/AAC is a big step down from the ACC. Today's win, on the road no less, and the Miami win were both great. Manning still has a lot to prove in my book and I'm not sold that his ceiling is ever going to be all that much better than Dino's (the better the players, the better the record), but this week was good and a lot of fun.

wsc8521s said:
Strickland seems like he'd be real fun at parties.

Everyone, explain everything to him. Thanks
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I just think it's crap to call out Ph for doing something that he's not doing and, frankly, not many are doing. I think you do, too. Everybody is happy when we win. Everybody is upset when we lose. I'd like to think that we all have that in common.

Look, we're winning basketball games and looking better in the process. There's nothing wrong with that, regardless of your agenda.
 
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Strickland33 said:
Who are the many advocating the "I don't care about margin of victory" viewpoint on here?

ETA: I ask because I think that the answer is 0. I hear a lot of folks bemoaning the moral victory rhetoric that was common on here for years (and that I espoused on quite a few occasions during [name redacted]'s first season and a half), but I don't hear anybody saying that they don't care about margin of victory. Really small and really large margins of victory makes losses hurt worse, even if really small margins of victory losses hurt us less in the algorithms.
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I want to say wrangor but without going back I can't be sure. Someone definitely said they just care about wins and SOS. And a LOT of people have harped on solely wins and losses.
 
Strickland33 said:
I'm sure OGB can track down a post where I articulated my expectations, but iirc, my expectations were pretty low. Without Chaundee Brown, I would probably think he was a subpar recruiter. With Chaundee, he is performing more or less to my expectations. As to wins and losses: I had a feeling that it would take Manning some time to win here because of his lack of a resume and the fact that Conference USA/AAC is a big step down from the ACC. Today's win, on the road no less, and the Miami win were both great. Manning still has a lot to prove in my book and I'm not sold that his ceiling is ever going to be all that much better than Dino's (the better the players, the better the record), but today was good.



I just think it's crap to call out Ph for doing something that he's not doing and, frankly, not many are doing. I think you do, too. Everybody is happy when we win. Everybody is upset when we lose. I'd like to think that we all have that in common.

Look, we're winning basketball games and looking better in the process. There's nothing wrong with that, regardless of your agenda.
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Where would you rank our team nationally?
 
RChildress107 said:
Where would you rank our team nationally?
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It's not my job to rank our team nationally (and I don't watch nearly enough college basketball to do so), but I'd like to see a win over a ranked opponent (Louisville or Duke would cut it for me), an additional conference road win (that isn't BC), and beating at least 3 of BC, GT, NCSU, Pitt, and VT before I buy that we're an NCAA Tournament team.

My main critique up to this point is still that our best "record" assets remain close losses to elite/good teams and beating teams that an NCAA Tournament-caliber team should beat. I'm not sure that today changes that, but I feel good about the fact that we're beating teams that we should beat again. That hasn't happened in awhile.

Winning feels good, too.
 
Strickland33 said:
It's not my job to rank our team nationally (and I don't watch nearly enough college basketball to do so), but I'd like to see a win over a ranked opponent (Louisville or Duke would cut it for me), an additional conference road win (that isn't BC), and beating at least 3 of BC, GT, NCSU, Pitt, and VT before I buy that we're an NCAA Tournament team.

My main critique up to this point is still that our best "record" assets remain close losses to elite/good teams and beating teams that an NCAA Tournament-caliber team should beat. I'm not sure that today changes that, but I feel good about the fact that we're beating teams that we should beat again. That hasn't happened in awhile.

Winning feels good, too.
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Ok, fair enough. What objective standard should we use to judge Manning?
 
Strickland33 said:
I'd like to see a win over a ranked opponent (Louisville or Duke would cut it for me), an additional conference road win (that isn't BC), and beating at least 3 of BC, GT, NCSU, Pitt, and VT before I buy that we're an NCAA Tournament team.
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So you basically want us to be an NCAA team before you buy us as an NCAA team?
 
RChildress107 said:
So you basically want us to be an NCAA team before you buy us as an NCAA team?
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Rather than take Kenpom's word for it? I'd think everybody should feel that way.
 
RChildress107 said:
Ok, fair enough. What objective standard should we use to judge Manning?
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I think that if the last few years have taught us anything, then it is that are no objective standards outside of Ron Wellman's standards.

RChildress107 said:
So you basically want us to be an NCAA team before you buy us as an NCAA team?
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I don't know if a 17 win Wake team deserves a shot at the NCAA Tournament, but it's a much better case (IMO because that's what you asked for) than the one that we have now. Our wins are Miami (#37), @NC State (#79), Charleston (#92), Bucknell (#95), @Richmond (#111), @UNCG (#147), @ LSU (#148), BC (#159), Coastal (#201), Charlotte (#224), Radford (#264), and UTEP (#319). That just doesn't convince me. 4 wins that include a conference win on the road and a win over a top-25 team might.
 
My concern with Danny has more to do with his recruiting ability as 2 of our starting 5 are transfer students. We appear to have a below average 2016 class, and a good but small 2017 class. His 2015 class was good and he seems to be excellent at identifying and developing talent as 2 of the 3 are our top scorers and best players. His offensive sets and game plan are the best I have seen at Wake since GDO. His defensive sets and plan seems above average to good although we seem to be lacking the necessary atheletes to play good defense. His in game coaching, especially over the past few games () seems to be good. If Danny can recruit more classes similar to the 2015 class, I believe we will be extremely pleased with DM as our coach. It all depends upon recruiting.
 
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You mean to tell me I shouldn't have bought my tickets for our play-in game in Dayton vs. VCU just yet?

Oops.

Re: HDSux's post, I think Danny also deserves credit for finding contributors for the 2014 class, as well. It's a victory that he came up with two guys that late in the game that are significant contributors to this year's squad
 
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I think our NCAA hope are sketchy if we finish the regular season at 17-13 (and 18-14 after ACCT). Go 18-12 (19-13) then our SOS could carry us in. Looking at the schedule next week is probably our best shot for a marquee win, even though if dook loses tonight they could fall out of the rankings. If this team is legitimate we should, no doubt, have 4 (@BC, GT, State, Pitt) wins. Most likely 3 losses on the schedule (@ND, @dook, L'ville). That leaves dook, @ Syr, @Clem, @ VT

@ Syr
dook
@BC
GT
@ND
State
@ Clem
@ dook
Pitt
L'ville
@VT

At that being said, if we want to be considered an NCAAT team, I think we need to at least split the next two. We may need to win nearly as many road games as we have in the last 4 years combined.
 
If we go 19-13, we will make the NCAA Tournament. Not a shadow of doubt in my mind
 
All we need to know about Dino's coaching ability is that he reached #1 while in the ACC, finished 61-31 in the ACC and won an NCAAT game in his last year and he hasn't sniffed a job in the past seven years. He hasn't even been offered an assistant's job in a decent conference.

If he has/had any ability, something would have happened in the past seven years.
 
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