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HP's UNC-Cheat Thread - UNC comes out on top, NCAA penalized by UNC

Shorty said:
PSU deserved all the punishment that could heaped upon them. Just punishment from the proper authority, the criminal justice system.
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Those things which happened at Penn State are considered crimes under the criminal justice system, and would be whether or not they occurred in the context of a college athletic program. Multiple people are doing and will do prison time for their acts and actions.

The issues at UNC would not be considered "crimes" under criminal statutes. However, they do directly impact the fairness and integrity of collegiate athletics. The maintaining of relatively fair conditions for conduct of college athletics is the purpose and the purview of the NCAA. Thus, they should take action against situations like occur at UNC which impact their standards for collegiate athletics (player eligibility, improper benefits etc.) and deliver appropriate punishment to those who fail to abide by those standards.

The NCAA over reached into punishing PSU for heinous criminal acts that had little to do with collegiate athletics, other than the individuals who committed the acts and covered them up were part of collegiate athletics. The acts are crimes anywhere. They are appropriately handled by the criminal justice system.
 
JManslow said:
Many in PSU's AD and administration might not have violated any law but they still played a part in covering up and encouraging pedophilia. They deserved to get crushed by any entity with authority. Full stop.

You guys acting like college kids cheating is worse than a decades long child sex scandal is why it's hard to take you seriously.
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The rationale behind Lack of Institutional Control is keeping sports in perspective and squarely behind the University's broader mission.

Do you think that the University's President's office would have committed criminal acts to cover up decades-long serial child rape if the team was 4-8? No chance.
 
jhmd2000 said:
The rationale behind Lack of Institutional Control is keeping sports in perspective and squarely behind the University's broader mission.

Do you think that the University's President's office would have committed criminal acts to cover up decades-long serial child rape if the team was 4-8? No chance.
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Exxxxxxactly. It's really bizarre that people here are defending them.
 
JManslow said:
Exxxxxxactly. It's really bizarre that people here are defending them.
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I don't understand how in the hell you can think anybody is defending Penn State. The guilty are in jail and will be for a long time. That's as it should be. UNC is going to lose scholarships, post season play, and maybe a banner or two. That's as it should be.

Jail is worse than NCAA sanctions.
 
It's starting to hit close to home for the Tar Holes on these boards who realize they're going to take a 1-2 KO from the NCAA.

More than the banners, the schollies and the bans, I'm most looking forward to how many Walmart UNC fans jump ship. Should be a fun decade if the NCAA has any balls at all.
 
Having only skimmed large parts of this thread, has anyone made a coherent defense against Lack of Institutional Control?

I can't really think of anything that screams "Lack of Institutional Control" more than an 18-year long fake classes scandal featuring hundreds of student athletes across multiple sports.

I think I've posted this before but schools have gotten the death penalty for much less.
Southwestern Louisiana was found guilty of more than 125 violations in August 1973. Most of them involved small cash payments to players, letting players borrow coaches' and boosters' cars, letting players use university credit cards to buy gas and buying clothes and other objects for players. However, the most severe violations involved massive academic fraud. In the most egregious case, an assistant coach altered a recruit's high school transcript and forged the principal's signature. Several boosters arranged for surrogates to take college entrance exams for prospective recruits. The NCAA responded by scrubbing the Ragin' Cajuns' 1972 and 1973 NCAA Tournament appearances from the books and canceling the 1973–74 and 1974–75 seasons.[12][13] To date, this is the only multi-season cancellation ever handed down to a Division I member. The NCAA Council found the violations to be so egregious that it recommended throwing Southwestern Louisiana out of the NCAA altogether, but the convention opted to strip the school of voting privileges until 1977.
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It would seem that UNC should have 18 seasons of athletics and multiple titles scrubbed from the record books in addition to prospective action. It seems pretty damned uncomplicated.
 
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The defense, such as it is, is that the NCAA lacks jurisdiction - that this is an academic issue and beyond the NCAA's purview.
 
ipitytheblue said:
Having only skimmed large parts of this thread, has anyone made a coherent defense against Lack of Institutional Control?

I can't really think of anything that screams "Lack of Institutional Control" more than an 18-year long fake classes scandal featuring hundreds of student athletes across multiple sports.

I think I've posted this before but schools have gotten the death penalty for much less.


It would seem that UNC should have 18 seasons of athletics and multiple titles scrubbed from the record books in addition to prospective action. It seems pretty damned uncomplicated.
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If you believe this is going to happen, feel free to name your stakes.
 
awaken said:
The defense, such as it is, is that the NCAA lacks jurisdiction - that this is an academic issue and beyond the NCAA's purview.
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The NCAA website gives academic guidelines.
40 percent of required coursework for a degree must be complete by the end of the second year, 60 percent by the end of the third year and 80 percent by the end of their fourth year.
Student-athletes are allowed five years of eligibility and athletically related financial aid.
All Division I student-athletes must earn at least six credit hours each term to be eligible for the following term and must meet minimum grade-point average requirements related to the school’s GPA standards for graduation.
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If UNC athletics fail to monitor/comply with their own institution's guidelines at best, it still sounds like LOIC.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Where are we on the stakes?
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We already have a bet. One month of avatar choice (nothing obscene or vulgar). The potential punishments in our bet. If 2 or more are levied than I win.

1. Loss of scholarships
2. Loss of wins
3. Ban from post season play

I am feeling pretty good, even though it has taken forever.
 
OGB denizens, I have baited a bigtime Tar Heel fan into a Facebook argument that I can't afford to lose. Please help me win. The reward is posrep and lots of it.

Here's what we have so far:

OP shared The Wall Street Journal's post.
September 3 at 8:21pm ·
Tigers are looking good

The Wall Street Journal
September 3 at 7:01pm ·
Should you be ashamed of your school? See how your favorite team fares on our 2017 College Football Grid of Shame.


College Football’s 2017 Grid of Shame
In an annual tradition, The Wall Street Journal evaluates the country’s top teams and how much their fans need to be embarrassed—or proud—of their program’s off-the-field behavior
WSJ.COM

OL-AP017A_SHAME_16U_20170901110045.jpg


4. North Carolina
A long investigation into alleged fake classes at UNC, predominantly taken by athletes, took its latest step with an NCAA hearing in August. But the issue still isn't resolved and still hangs over the teams in Chapel Hill.

Comments
Me: And Tar Heels are looking like cheaters.

OP Indeed, bottoming out the list nearly...

It takes real effort to compete with Baylor for the title of most despicable program in college football. The Heels football team's real competition is with the men's and women's basketball programs.

TarHeelFan: Yes because one easy class in one department is the same as rape. FFS this is the definition of "fake news" and it will be proven in court.

I want to be able to speak on specific facts and expose hypocrisy. Thanks in advance.
 
BiffTannen said:
OGB denizens, I have baited a bigtime Tar Heel fan into a Facebook argument that I can't afford to lose. Please help me win. The reward is posrep and lots of it.

Here's what we have so far:

OP shared The Wall Street Journal's post.
September 3 at 8:21pm ·
Tigers are looking good

The Wall Street Journal
September 3 at 7:01pm ·
Should you be ashamed of your school? See how your favorite team fares on our 2017 College Football Grid of Shame.


College Football’s 2017 Grid of Shame
In an annual tradition, The Wall Street Journal evaluates the country’s top teams and how much their fans need to be embarrassed—or proud—of their program’s off-the-field behavior
WSJ.COM

OL-AP017A_SHAME_16U_20170901110045.jpg


4. North Carolina
A long investigation into alleged fake classes at UNC, predominantly taken by athletes, took its latest step with an NCAA hearing in August. But the issue still isn't resolved and still hangs over the teams in Chapel Hill.

Comments
Me: And Tar Heels are looking like cheaters.

OP Indeed, bottoming out the list nearly...

It takes real effort to compete with Baylor for the title of most despicable program in college football. The Heels football team's real competition is with the men's and women's basketball programs.

TarHeelFan: Yes because one easy class in one department is the same as rape. �� FFS this is the definition of "fake news" and it will be proven in court.

I want to be able to speak on specific facts and expose hypocrisy. Thanks in advance.
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UNC's accrediting agency didn't think it was fake news. If memory serves me correct, UNC is the ONLY Tier 1 research institution that has ever been placed on probation. Others can chime in & correct me if needed.
 
Uh... pack pride will have a doctorate level dissertation for you tomorrow if you ask there. Granted it'll spell like a chic-fil-a billboard but you can clean it up.
 
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