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John Collins is #2 in KP's All-ACC Ratings

Collins also plays the whole game now like he has 4 fouls, essentially. He is so valuable on offense that he doesn't really challenge on defense much, probably at the staff's direction. Most of his blocks are weak side rotation challenges where there is little foul risk.
 
In the NBA when he can go hard all the time and not worry about fouling out he could be a completely different defender.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
In the NBA when he can go hard all the time and not worry about fouling out he could be a completely different defender.
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Exactly. He'd get 6 fouls and be expected to play 25-30 minutes.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
NBA whistles are also superior to non primetime CBB whistles.
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If he's gonna go, let's get him to go out on top. He needs to have a ridiculous run here at the end of the season and in the post-season, put some of the concerns to rest, and find a way to jump definitively into the top 10. We would obviously miss him, but since he's likely gone either way, let's get the most out of him we can while positioning him for the greatest scenario for him and his family.
 
DraftExpress scout... mostly tweeted about DSJ's mostly lackadaisical play but had this to say about JC

@Mike_Schmitz
A lot to like about John Collins. Explosive, hard-playing, rebounds, has a little bit of touch, productive. Not even 19 1/2 years old yet.
 
I think Collins stays for another year. This is why. 1) he needs to learn how to deal with the double teams better. Hardly ever passes out and resets. Has very few assists. 2) he is very young 19 and 1/2-- needs a little time to mature. 3) he had a lot of fun today--winning is fun. After last year and a couple of games this year-- it is fun to win and to win big! 4) you can never have another junior year in college-- the NBA will always be there. 5) If Collins stays we will be very good next year and Collins will be a big part of it. Stay and you'll get to see your banner hanging in the Joel. Insurance is available to protect against injuries and drop in draft status-- whats not to like about being a part of the best Wake team in 10 years!
 
BudatWake said:
I think Collins stays for another year. This is why. 1) he needs to learn how to deal with the double teams better. Hardly ever passes out and resets. Has very few assists. 2) he is very young 19 and 1/2-- needs a little time to mature. 3) he had a lot of fun today--winning is fun. After last year and a couple of games this year-- it is fun to win and to win big! 4) you can never have another junior year in college-- the NBA will always be there. 5) If Collins stays we will be very good next year and Collins will be a big part of it. Stay and you'll get to see your banner hanging in the Joel. Insurance is available to protect against injuries and drop in draft status-- whats not to like about being a part of the best Wake team in 10 years!
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1. He's probably been instructed to shoot every time he can.
2. He's young, but has grown plenty.
3. Given the fact he would be drafted in the 20-30 range, he'll be picked by a winning franchise and getting paid for winning.
4. The NBA will be there but he could lose millions of dollars.
5. If your dream is to make the NBA, Wake winning would be nice but secondary.
 
BudatWake said:
I think Collins stays for another year. This is why. 1) he needs to learn how to deal with the double teams better. Hardly ever passes out and resets. Has very few assists. 2) he is very young 19 and 1/2-- needs a little time to mature. 3) he had a lot of fun today--winning is fun. After last year and a couple of games this year-- it is fun to win and to win big! 4) you can never have another junior year in college-- the NBA will always be there. 5) If Collins stays we will be very good next year and Collins will be a big part of it. Stay and you'll get to see your banner hanging in the Joel. Insurance is available to protect against injuries and drop in draft status-- whats not to like about being a part of the best Wake team in 10 years!
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1. There has been one college athlete ever to successfully collect on an insurance policy (Oregon CB who tore ACL brutally before rose bowl). You can't just lock in several million dollars via insurance if you are projected to go #22 in the NBA draft.
2. The entire top 10 will essentially be the same age as Collins. That is about the age the majority of people that are drafted in the first round reach the NBA. They almost all have flaws in their game.
3. It is easy to say the NBA will always be there, but you never know. If Collins is sure that he will be taken in the 1st round and comes back there is probably a 10% chance he never plays in the NBA. That's really easy for us as fans to tell him to pass up.
 
Putting the injury risk aside, are there any examples of super productive big men that came back to school after being projected first round and then didn't get drafted the next year. Most of the examples of guys who "should have gone" are players hyped coming out of high school that never reached their potential and should have cashed in while they had the chance. Not sure that really applies to Collins.
 
RChildress107 said:
Putting the injury risk aside, are there any examples of super productive big men that came back to school after being projected first round and then didn't get drafted the next year. Most of the examples of guys who "should have gone" are players hyped coming out of high school that never reached their potential and should have cashed in while they had the chance. Not sure that really applies to Collins.
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I think injury risk is the #1 thing. Not a career ender, just something costs you games during the college season and negatively impacts performance for a bit when you do play etc. All of a sudden you are old for the 1st round and coming off an injury plagued season. If you were projected 20-25 in the first place....

I wouldn't count on an insurance policy when no NCAA basketball player has ever collected on one.
 
McAdoo? Guaranteed lottery pick, comes back and goes undrafted. Same size and position in the NBA as Collins. Threw away millions in guaranteed money to scrap for league minimums and 10 day deals. Barely hanging on now.
 
collins earned his status on his play (as opposed to the high potential guys who didn't do much production-wise), so a lot less risk. but he should leave.
 
FckVwls said:
I think injury risk is the #1 thing. Not a career ender, just something costs you games during the college season and negatively impacts performance for a bit when you do play etc. All of a sudden you are old for the 1st round and coming off an injury plagued season. If you were projected 20-25 in the first place....

I wouldn't count on an insurance policy when no NCAA basketball player has ever collected on one.
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That's because there haven't been many potential first rounders that have suffered career ending injuries. Have their been any? The injury risk is overstated IMO
 
The Collins doesn't pass the ball thing is overrated. Sure, his assists numbers are horribad, but he's not turning the ball over and oftentimes the double doesn't get there before he's already slipped past the defender for a layup. Basically, there is little reason for him to pass the ball.

The pass to Arians yesterday was beautiful.
 
RChildress107 said:
That's because there haven't been many potential first rounders that have suffered career ending injuries. Have their been any? The injury risk is overstated IMO
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Hank Gathers? :couch:
Isaiah Austin? Not really an injury per se, but I doubt insurance would have covered it and he never got any guaranteed money.
But yeah, very few basketball injuries are "career-ending". Kenyon Martin's could have been at the time, but he still got picked #1 overall. Both Oden and Embiid showed that NBA teams will not back off because of injury if they think the talent is there.
 
stevewhite14 said:
The Collins doesn't pass the ball thing is overrated. Sure, his assists numbers are horribad, but he's not turning the ball over and oftentimes the double doesn't get there before he's already slipped past the defender for a layup. Basically, there is little reason for him to pass the ball.

The pass to Arians yesterday was beautiful.
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I do think that it is a legitimate thing that he still needs to work on though. Has made a lot of progress this year - Arians pass case in point.
 
stevewhite14 said:
The Collins doesn't pass the ball thing is overrated. Sure, his assists numbers are horribad, but he's not turning the ball over and oftentimes the double doesn't get there before he's already slipped past the defender for a layup. Basically, there is little reason for him to pass the ball.

The pass to Arians yesterday was beautiful.
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There were a couple of times yesterday that he got the ball and was determined to take the shot and forces them. But as said, when you are leading the league in FG% there is a reason you don't pass out.
 
is it a reach to say the coaching he gets from manning may be better than any he could get at the next level? as far as big men development...
 
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