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NOW Howland watch: UPDATE 3/20@ 10:30 new tweets

If we want to win in the next couple years, we're going to need to do it on the defensive end with a strong defensive coach like Howland. We in no way have the personnel right now to outscore teams offensively. Not too concerned about recruiting, I think his recruiting here would resemble Dixon at Pitt (obviously). He would absolutely be my #3 after Shaka and Marshall.
 
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No. No we didn't.

Your opinion against my facts don't measure up. BP's agent was contacted. Period. I didn't say offered. Quit acting like you are the Gandalf of the boards. You have zero #moxy or anything interesting to say, which is sad given your post count. Deport this #clown to the old boards. #NoMoxyNoJuiceNoSwaggger
 
In basically seven years, he finished 3rd once, 4th once and 5th once in the B12. He finished at .520 in the B12. Not good for a HOF coach.

He did make one Sweet 16, but his teams missed The Dance three times. Only twice in seven years did he win an NCAAT game.

Sorry, that is failure for a HOF coach.

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It's actually 5. One in 1980, one in 1995 and all the Howland ones.

It's 6. Gene Bartow took them to the FF in 1976 the year after Wooden retired. One of our esteemed board posters can probably give you every detail of that game.
 
I've got three just from the University of Michigan:
Bill Frieder
Steve Fisher
Tommy Ammaker
Um, Michigan is not a A-List program. Plus- Frieder- 2 NCAA tourneys in 8 fucking years. Amaker- 3 NCAA's in 7 years (at Harvard, mind you, which is both a positive for him in that it is a lower level school and a negative in that it is a lower level school. Fischer- 2 NCAA's in his first 10 years at SDSU- is that acceptable for Wake?

fired or forced resignation....

Bob Huggins
Cliff Ellis
Lefty Driesell
Mike Davis

None of these guys, save Davis, coached at an A-List program. And Davis didn't exactly set the world on fire at UAB.

Lefty Driesell

Bruce Weber

Wow, he had a great run at JMU and GSU. Certainly what the level of performance I would hope for from a coach at Wake.

Weber- again, not from an A-list program. But I will grant you that his performance at KSU has been good.
 
Again, we're almost definitely not making the Final Four with almost any coach we could conceivably hire. At this point we're just trying to claw our way back to where we were when Dino got fired.

I have found myself thinking the same thing. We need someone right now to simply bring us back to the point where we can consistently make the NCAAT.
 
I have found myself thinking the same thing. We need someone right now to simply bring us back to the point where we can consistently make the NCAAT.

I'd settle for somebody who can consistently get us in the NIT
 
Who are the guys we're comparing Howland to when people say "See, history tells us he won't succeed" ??

Tubby Smith made 1 final four. He did OK at Minnesota, but Wake is a better job.
Huggins had a great career at Cincy, then took WVU to a final four (and has had good success until recently)
Eddie Sutton had the scandal at UK, then did well at Ok St
Steve Fischer

I just don't think people realize how well Howland has done. There are 8 current coaches with 3+ final fours. Who are you pointing to and saying he can't get it done because even [insert coach] couldn't do it at [insert school comparable to Wake]?

I don't think either side can use this argument because Howland is in a class all alone in terms of accomplishments and downfall.
 
I like gambling too, but if you can get close to a sure thing right now then you take it.

Of course. I don't think Howland is a sure thing based on his lack of success his last four years at UCLA before getting fired, and hypothesis that his success can mostly be attributed to getting awesome recruits that can be attributed to his assistant.

My thought process is this:

-Howland made three final fours in a row. Why?
-Because he had unbelievable players. 8 guys who played in the NBA over those three years plus good role players. How did he get those players?
-He recruited really well and put together really good rosters. How did he do that?
-He had Kerry Keating as his top recruiting assistant who was known as a genius recruiter who handled that entire aspect of the program. Can he hire the next Keating if he were at Wake?
-It's possible, but I doubt it. Especially it's been noted about what a difficult time Howland had replacing Keating.

In short, I don't put too much stock into Howland's three Final Four years at UCLA because I think the circumstances leading up to those years would be impossible to duplicate if he were to be HC at Wake.

I do think his success at Northern Arizona and Pittsburgh is really impressive, so if we do hire him, I'd be banking on him going back to that style to have success -- but it was so long ago and in a different era of college basketball.

My fear is that he will come in and alienate the existing players with his tough style and lack of personality, leading to several transfers. We'd be bad next year and even worse the following year. Howland isn't a miracle worker coach -- his first team at UCLA was putrid (151st in KP), despite solid talent that included four guys who played in the NBA and mostly top 100 recruits. Recruiting would be about what it is with Bzz because of his style of play and inability to connect with players -- the occasional four star, lots of 3 stars, and we are basically playing post-Duncan era Odom ball. Not terrible, but far from what I think we want.
 
Um, Michigan is not a A-List program. Plus- Frieder- 2 NCAA tourneys in 8 fucking years. Amaker- 3 NCAA's in 7 years (at Harvard, mind you, which is both a positive for him in that it is a lower level school and a negative in that it is a lower level school. Fischer- 2 NCAA's in his first 10 years at SDSU- is that acceptable for Wake?



None of these guys, save Davis, coached at an A-List program. And Davis didn't exactly set the world on fire at UAB.



Wow, he had a great run at JMU and GSU. Certainly what the level of performance I would hope for from a coach at Wake.

Weber- again, not from an A-list program. But I will grant you that his performance at KSU has been good.

Oh, so you only want coaches who were fired from the top six or seven programs in America. Good grief.

How about Frank McGuire? He didn't win a national championship at USC, but he had some great teams before the field was expanded and got them to the Sweet Sixteen.
 
Your opinion against my facts don't measure up. BP's agent was contacted. Period. I didn't say offered. Quit acting like you are the Gandalf of the boards. You have zero #moxy or anything interesting to say, which is sad given your post count. Deport this #clown to the old boards. #NoMoxyNoJuiceNoSwaggger

You're an idiot. It is quite clear that you made up the Pearl was contacted rumor just because you have been pimping his name for, what? 2 years now?

Moxy. Juice. Swagger.

Idiocy.
 
Not true. You can't expect there to be any enthusiasm for a team that is one of the worst in their league.

Not sure where you are geographically, but west coast sports (both collegiate and professional, especially in LA area) are a different animal. My point is even when teams are winning, no one really cares. Unless it's the finals and then everyone is a fan. That exists everywhere, but it's different out there.
 
I think most of the guys who got fired that have been mentioned were for cheating/non basketball related reasons.

There hasn't been a final four coach who was previously fired/forced out for basketball reasons in the last 25 years, and maybe longer. And of the final four coaches who were fired for basketball reasons, none have made it back.
 
In basically seven years, he finished 3rd once, 4th once and 5th once in the B12. He finished at .520 in the B12. Not good for a HOF coach.

He did make one Sweet 16, but his teams missed The Dance three times. Only twice in seven years did he win an NCAAT game.

Sorry, that is failure for a HOF coach.

Context, RJ. Things to consider, when throwing around absolutist terms like "failure:"

1) What was the state of Texas Tech's program before Bobby Knight's arrival?
2) How has Texas Tech done since Bobby Knight left?
3) What does finishing 3rd once, 4th once and 5th once in the Big 12, coupled with that Sweet 16 appearance, mean to Texas Tech basketball in light of their program history?

Nuance. Complexity. Thoughtfulness. We're going to get you there!
 
I think most of the guys who got fired that have been mentioned were for cheating/non basketball related reasons.

There hasn't been a final four coach who was previously fired/forced out for basketball reasons in the last 25 years, and maybe longer. And of the final four coaches who were fired for basketball reasons, none have made it back.

UCLA went 25-9, won the PAC-12, and went to the NCAA tournament the year he was fired.
 
So under Ben we become another UVa type of program, that looks pretty good right now.
 
UCLA went 25-9, won the PAC-12, and went to the NCAA tournament the year he was fired.

There have been dozens and dozens of posts in the New Coach thread about his final season at UCLA. They won the Pac-12 regular season but they still massively underachieved and had a very poor year. There just weren't any good teams in the Pac-12 (no team higher than 6 seed out of the conference I think)

But yeah, they were top 15 preseason w/ the #1 recruiting class and two high first round NBA players on the team, etc. To not crack top 40 was a massive failure.
 
Um, Michigan is not a A-List program. Plus- Frieder- 2 NCAA tourneys in 8 fucking years. Amaker- 3 NCAA's in 7 years (at Harvard, mind you, which is both a positive for him in that it is a lower level school and a negative in that it is a lower level school. Fischer- 2 NCAA's in his first 10 years at SDSU- is that acceptable for Wake?



None of these guys, save Davis, coached at an A-List program. And Davis didn't exactly set the world on fire at UAB.

I guess your A-list consists only of Duke, UNC, Kansas, KY & UCLA. Since you discount several major conference schools (at least two w/ NC's), WF will never be an elite school by your criteria.
 
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