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Partial Blame

Eagles, there's a difference between a guy who has his choice of positions and someone who won't be offered every job that comes onto the market. When you are in that position, you can be super-selective.

I gave my reasons why the billboard and especially the ads would do no good and could do harm. I wasn't the only person who said this. The ACCT ads were particularly bad.

Context and timing are critical. When dealing with an ego like RW's the ACCT is probably the worst time to place that ad. It will piss him off and make him more stubborn.

Being factually correct and valuable aren't the same thing. As the scene from Big Trouble shows there are things you can do. It doesn't means you should do them.

I realize this is a calm and rational opinion trying to compete with frustrated emotionalism. That doesn't mean I shouldn't say it.
 
RJKarl said:
Made me think of the movie Big Trouble:

"Henry Desalvo: I got a great New York Strip over there that cost me $27 in change and it tastes like I'm eating a cigar butt. Now please put out your cigars.

Bruce: There's no rule against smoking here.

Henry Desalvo: This isn't about rules, it's about manners. Now there's no rule that says that I cant come over here and fart on your entree. But I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good manners. Now I'm asking you please - put out your cigars.

Bruce: [blows smoke in Henry's face] No.

[Henry breaks his middle and index fingers]

Bruce: I hope you realize you've just committed assault.

Henry Desalvo: I know. There was a time when you actually had to hit somebody."

What they may not want to deal with is a bunch of classless idiots who put up billboards and attack his wife on the internet when they allegedly want you to be their coach.

If one school is offering you $2.5-3.5M/ year, you know someone else will. Why deal with such morons? Why deal with people who insult your wife?

My bad it's OK to insult someone's wife you've never met as long you are a millennial, maybe hipster, self-indulgent Wake Forest fan.
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Ok I'm confused. #1, the only s public sentiments this board has ever made are via the billboard, website, and ads. None of those communications ever presented an inkling of a personal attack on anyone. Again the worst public sentiment this board ever did was publicize his record via the website. Second, I will concede that their are many tounge in cheek harsh criticisms expressed on these boards. But this is a private message board. You would literally need to create an account here to eaves drop on those communications. Third, I have never read a personal attack on Ms. Bz on these message boards. The only thing I've learned about her is her name and that she probably cannot be happy surrounded by all of this unrest.

Lastly, and I love you RJ but I gotta call a spade a spade, the only truly negative attack available for public record that I have seen comes from the Scout Board. If you go to google and type in "Rondale Watson" look what pops up. Now that is not cool, especially for a 17 year old kid who asked for none of this.
 
My point though isn't debating the worthiness of the billboards and whether they accomplished anything. You can be disappointed in them all you'd like.

My point is that any major basketball opening possesses a fanbase if, presented with [Redacted]'s tenure, was going to react in a similar manner. I expect any rational coach to understand this. In fact, I think the actions pale in comparison both in context & numbers to what any other coach would have faced at another school in a BCS conference. If a coach doesn't understand this or is bothered by it, he really shouldn't be coaching in the ACC.

That isn't to say you need to approve of the billboards -- but the real harm done to the school was the hiring of [Redacted] and the actions thereafter by Wellman. When you look at it, I think you should view it like a venn diagram. Put Wake's opening on one end and the actions taken by the fanbase & also by the AD in one circle, and an opening from a major BCS program on the other and the actions taken by the fanbase & AD in the other circle had they been presented with a similar coaching era to [Redacted]. I imagine what you'd find is a lot of overlap in the middle between the fanbases and their responses to what transpired (whether you want Wake fans to be "better than that" is irrelevant for this). What you don't find overlapping in this scenario is the action of the athletic departments. A competent athletic department doesn't act in a manner that Wellman has acted & takes responsibility and blame for the last four years, not wage some passive-aggressive pseudo-war with the alumni. A real athletic department acts with accountability and responsibility and does everything it can to make the job attractive to new suitors, and even if the AD DOES have issues with the fanbase, it is supposed to be better than the masses and can cover that up publicly rather than bring light to it.

You will get a lot of fanbases which have and would have acted the same or worse to ours given the circumstances. Most coaches realize this I would hope. What you also have is a lot of athletic departments who would have acted in a different manner to our athletic department. Most coaches also realize this, unfortunately. You judge what has created the toxicity surrounding this job.
 
and it is the first thing that pops up…In all caps. "DID WE REALLY JUST SIGN RONDALE WATSON?" Click on it. "If so WTF?" Now I have no idea if that is your account on that board or if someone is just f'ing with you. Nonetheless, that is easily one of the most damaging petulant actions to come from the fans unrest.

I've always felt like 50 and 60 yr old grown millionaires were fair play. but let's leave the student athletes out of this. We want to bitch about a players poor play on a thread, fine, we can police fandom and as long as it's closed off like this board then no harm. But we have all got to believe that the young man has googled himself and seen that, and it can't feel good. I didn't post on that thread or participate in it any fashion, but I'm still embarrassed by it.

I always go after folks who are LOWF and all that BS about how this is a billion dollar business, but they are being paid like it is so lets just draw the line somewhere. As I said earlier, I want a roster chopped full of top 100 talent more than anybody else, but we can never do that public thread.
 
I wish we hadn't bought the billboards, but I don't blame certain Wake fans for doing it. I'm more sad that the last 4 years drove us to even think of it in the first place.
 
Thanks for the laugh.

"the only s public sentiments this board has ever made are via the billboard, website, and ads."

These are HUGE problems. It's not like it happened once. It's not like we have hundreds of thousands of local fans.

It wasn't Mrs. He who shall not be named I was talking about. There were several pages of attacks on Shaka's wife over the past week.

As Rondale Watson, why don't you include the other thread I started welcoming him and wishing only the best? My bad that would be telling the whole story.

Again i'll take my experience and my contacts around the bball world over all of those who championed the ads and billboards. I understand the frustration. I understand it's not easy be rational when you've been lied to over and over. I'm hardly the only person who said negative things about these actions.

The reality the national press and intermediate media almost uniformly skewered those efforts. It's not just about me. It's about the image the ads and billboards portrayed. You can rationalize all you like. You can bitch about Bilas, other ESPN people and other outlet until the cows come home. It won't change the fact those billboards and ads were panned by nearly everyone not on this board.

I'm sorry the rational crew like Dirk, baby and myself were right and you were wrong, but that's the way it is.
 
Eagles_Legendz said:
My point though isn't debating the worthiness of the billboards and whether they accomplished anything. You can be disappointed in them all you'd like.

My point is that any major basketball opening possesses a fanbase if, presented with [Redacted]'s tenure, was going to react in a similar manner. I expect any rational coach to understand this. In fact, I think the actions pale in comparison both in context & numbers to what any other coach would have faced at another school in a BCS conference. If a coach doesn't understand this or is bothered by it, he really shouldn't be coaching in the ACC.

That isn't to say you need to approve of the billboards -- but the real harm done to the school was the hiring of [Redacted] and the actions thereafter by Wellman. When you look at it, I think you should view it like a venn diagram. Put Wake's opening on one end and the actions taken by the fanbase & also by the AD in one circle, and an opening from a major BCS program on the other and the actions taken by the fanbase & AD in the other circle had they been presented with a similar coaching era to [Redacted]. I imagine what you'd find is a lot of overlap in the middle between the fanbases and their responses to what transpired (whether you want Wake fans to be "better than that" is irrelevant for this). What you don't find overlapping in this scenario is the action of the athletic departments. A competent athletic department doesn't act in a manner that Wellman has acted & takes responsibility and blame for the last four years, not wage some passive-aggressive pseudo-war with the alumni. A real athletic department acts with accountability and responsibility and does everything it can to make the job attractive to new suitors, and even if the AD DOES have issues with the fanbase, it is supposed to be better than the masses and can cover that up publicly rather than bring light to it.

You will get a lot of fanbases which have and would have acted the same or worse to ours given the circumstances. Most coaches realize this I would hope. What you also have is a lot of athletic departments who would have acted in a different manner to our athletic department. Most coaches also realize this, unfortunately. You judge what has created the toxicity surrounding this job.
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Yup. this was just a natural progression. pos rep
 
RJKarl said:
I gave my reasons why the billboard and especially the ads would do no good and could do harm. I wasn't the only person who said this. The ACCT ads were particularly bad.
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You didn't, actually. And no matter what your reason is, you're still fucking wrong and being a fucking idiot about this
 
RJKarl said:
Thanks for the laugh.

"the only s public sentiments this board has ever made are via the billboard, website, and ads."

These are HUGE problems. It's not like it happened once. It's not like we have hundreds of thousands of local fans.

It wasn't Mrs. He who shall not be named I was talking about. There were several pages of attacks on Shaka's wife over the past week.

As Rondale Watson, why don't you include the other thread I started welcoming him and wishing only the best? My bad that would be telling the whole story.

Again i'll take my experience and my contacts around the bball world over all of those who championed the ads and billboards. I understand the frustration. I understand it's not easy be rational when you've been lied to over and over. I'm hardly the only person who said negative things about these actions.

The reality the national press and intermediate media almost uniformly skewered those efforts. It's not just about me. It's about the image the ads and billboards portrayed. You can rationalize all you like. You can bitch about Bilas, other ESPN people and other outlet until the cows come home. It won't change the fact those billboards and ads were panned by nearly everyone not on this board.

I'm sorry the rational crew like Dirk, baby and myself were right and you were wrong, but that's the way it is.
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My apologies, I guess thats what I get for speaking on something I lacked full context on. I thought you were talking about Bz's wife. I did not know there were attacks on Smarts wife and if there were that's incredibly stupid and probably baseless, since the only thing I have read about the smart courting was speculation borne out of Chinese whispers (I don't know the derivation of that idiom so apologies if it's racist).

As far as the Rondale thing, I didn't even know the other thread you created existed. I have never had a problem with you on these boards, I had no agenda for alluding to it, and only called it out because it did and still does, truly bother me. Honestly, I don't know you but doubt you meant anything hurtful by it and was nothing more than a frustrated fans knee jerk reaction to our failed recruiting efforts. Nonetheless, the Scout people should lock or delete that thread because it really is the first thing that pops up when you google his name and its not a good look. At least for me, it's even above his twitter handle and 24/7 recruiting page.
 
I was surprised about signing Rondale, but I also commended the young for pouncing on a great opportunity. I wished him luck. I said he and his parents acted properly and quickly. They would have been crazy to say no.
 
RJKarl said:
I was surprised about signing Rondale, but I also commended the young for pouncing on a great opportunity. I wished him luck. I said he and his parents acted properly and quickly. They would have been crazy to say no.
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Such a hypocrite. Do as I say not as I do...
 
RJKarl said:
I was surprised about signing Rondale, but I also commended the young for pouncing on a great opportunity. I wished him luck. I said he and his parents acted properly and quickly. They would have been crazy to say no.
Click to expand...

I get this and I understand, but you realize that the negative thread that you started on the public board is the first thing that comes up on Google when you search Rondale Watson? The other one doesn't, even though the sentiment is legit. That's what people are referring to.

Also, this board is private, so unless Shaka or Maya has a login, they have no idea that Brasky or ELC's (honestly can't remember who posted it) dumbfuck (hopefully kidding or sarcastic) 2-3 posts - nestled in the middle of one of the MASSIVE threads about the coaching search and questioning validity of Maya's CV - even exist. That's how private boards work.
 
We had VCU people signed up at that point. There is no reason to have done it.

Who cares about Googling a Wake recruit? If you go to the board you see both. I was among the most people in praising Rondale and his family, but don't let that get in your way.
 
If this search has taught us one thing it's that the fans don't make a damn difference. We were considered the 8th best job out of 9 in 2000. We fired Dino after the second round and had no other option but Prince Valium. We sucked for four years and now have two ex coaches shitting on us in public interviews. It seems to me that RW got lucky with Skip then he got cocky and overplayed his hand. We need someone here who can sell Wake because, based on what we're hearing, this has never been considered a good job and I don't recall the fans being an issue in 2000 or 2010.
 
I'm not surprised that the guy responsible for
01_27_t.gif
doesn't subscribe to the maxim, "if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything".

You gotta love that the guy who thought up the toilets idea is pretending to have been dignified through this whole era.
 
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