Wake Forest vs. Florida State Game Thread

[RJKarl]

You may save a basket or two, but if a team finds a weakness, good ones keep going after it.

 

[DCDeac]

I am curious how many of those 46 points came against the Childress/Wilbekin combo.

Probably fewer than you think. The minutes are equal, all 4 started the game, started the 2nd half, closed out the game, and none played more than 75% of the total minutes available.

The one extended period for that matchup was probably the end of the first half when our guys were in foul trouble. Maybe the last 3 minutes or so, we went from a 4 point lead to a 1 point lead. Wilbekin actually hit some nice 3's after his rough start to keep them honest.

Think of it this way - Wilbekin and Childress scored the same number of points as Arians, Collins, and Dinos combined. That's not a depth problem.

 

[JuiceCrewAllStar]

The depth problem is not at the guard position, it's at the wing and post positions.

 

[RJKarl]

We have two ACC quality guards. Brandon may become one, but he's only a frosh.

 

[Deacsfan27]

Ideally Crawford and Woods get 60-65 minutes per game at the 1-2. The issue is that we pretty much have to go 3 guard given our lack of defensive depth at the 3 (either Arians or McClinton), which forces Chill and Mitch into more minutes.

At this point I would really like to see Chill get down to about 10 minutes per game and Woods/Crawford just eat up those minutes. Mitch a couple more if those two can't.

 

[Pilchard]

Get a TO baby!!!

So, the thought is that Manning should have called a TO and that would've/could've stopped FSU's run? Is that the theory?

Well, there was a TV TO with the score 70-66 at the 6:44 mark. After that TO and break, FSU out-scored WF 6-0 until WF called a TO at 5:12. After that TO, FSU out scored WF 12-6 the rest of the way (even though two more TO's were called). So, over the last 6:44 of the game, there were 4 TO's called and WF was outscored 18-6 during that stretch anyway. Not sure that I understand the TO argument and why some believe that it would've changed the game. Nothing changed when 4 TO's stopped play over the last third of the 2nd half.

 

[ChrisL68]

Fans love to harp on timeout usage and free throw shooting because it's the easiest thing to criticize. People honestly don't think Roy Williams is a good coach because he rarely calls timeout to stop a run as if it's that easy.

With an experienced team that is used to winning and executing in pressure situations I would probably be less concerned with calling TOs. We have a tendency to get out of sorts in a hurry, so I would have a quicker trigger with the TO.

 

[CHillDeac]

Get a TO baby!!!

So, the thought is that Manning should have called a TO and that would've/could've stopped FSU's run? Is that the theory?

Well, there was a TV TO with the score 70-66 at the 6:44 mark. After that TO and break, FSU out-scored WF 6-0 until WF called a TO at 5:12. After that TO, FSU out scored WF 12-6 the rest of the way (even though two more TO's were called). So, over the last 6:44 of the game, there were 4 TO's called and WF was outscored 18-6 during that stretch anyway. Not sure that I understand the TO argument and why some believe that it would've changed the game. Nothing changed when 4 TO's stopped play over the last third of the 2nd half.

I see what you did there. You left out the part where we were up 66-61 and then within about a min and a half FSU scored 9 straight to make it 70-66. They scored 15 straight pts before DM called a TO.

 

[Deacsfan27]

ITT: People say that Manning is a bad in-game coach and doesn't make good decisions, yet want him to call timeout where players then have more time to listen to his in-game coaching and bad decisions.

 

[Pilchard]

I see what you did there. You left out the part where we were up 66-61 and then within about a min and a half FSU scored 9 straight to make it 70-66. They scored 15 straight pts before DM called a TO.

How are TV timeouts different than a team called timeout? Want to understand.

 

[GoDeacsGo]

How are TV timeouts different than a team called timeout? Want to understand.

TV time outs are at set pre-determined times,.
College men: At the first dead ball after 4-minute intervals (beyond the 16:00, 12:00, 8:00 and 4:00 minute mark of each half).[2] Additionally, the first 30-second team timeout in the second half is expanded to a television timeout.[citation needed] If free throws are to be shot, a timeout is taken first.[citation needed] Effective with the 2015–16 season, when a team calls a timeout within the 30-second window before the next scheduled TV timeout break, the called timeout takes the place of the scheduled TV timeout.[3] A similar rule in the NBA is used when a 20-second timeout is called but a team's mandatory timeout point has been reached

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

People also need to attempt to understand coaching in terms of timeouts is different than it was two years ago. You used to have five and that gives you a couple extra to call for whatever reason you like. Now you have 4, at most 3 in the second half. Saving those 3 timeouts for late game situations is probably the best strategy for a coach to take imo. The game is changing.


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[PhDeac]

How are TV timeouts different than a team called timeout? Want to understand.

He was saying you left out the 9-0 run that started before your breakdown. That's the run during which we could have used a timeout.

Timeouts are also an important way to manage depth issues and get some extra rest for starters.

 

[Pilchard]

He was saying you left out the 9-0 run that started before your breakdown. That's the run during which we could have used a timeout.

Timeouts are also an important way to manage depth issues and get some extra rest for starters.

Yes, but the 4 timeouts after the 9-0 didn't stem the FSU tide. The game was still in the balance at 70-66 when the first time out stopped play, and then right after that TO, FSU scored the next 6 points. So, why would anyone think that a TO when the FSU run was 5-0 or 7-0 would've made a difference?

 

[siff]

ITT: People say that Manning is a bad in-game coach and doesn't make good decisions, yet want him to call timeout where players then have more time to listen to his in-game coaching and bad decisions.

Perhaps being a good in-game coach requires providing a forum during which one can instruct players?

 

[Deacsfan27]

I understand why it FEELS like a timeout may have helped stop the run, but beyond speculating that calling timeout COULD have helped stop it, is there any data to back up that it would have helped us?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but a timeout isn't a magical cure. Personally I would have liked to see a timeout after FSU took the lead to discuss how to attack the press and the defense they were running to make sure the guys were up on it, but we didn't.

 

[siff]

I understand why it FEELS like a timeout may have helped stop the run, but beyond speculating that calling timeout COULD have helped stop it, is there any data to back up that it would have helped us?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but a timeout isn't a magical cure. Personally I would have liked to see a timeout after FSU took the lead to discuss how to attack the press and the defense they were running to make sure the guys were up on it, but we didn't.

So you agree. Cool. :thumbsup:

 

[deacz]

No...it's a toss-up game. If we win tomorrow we stay on track to where we should be and effectively pick up a half win early in the season. If we lose we drop that half-game, but there are still a ton of opportunities left.

Now a Tuesday night loss to Boston College would be very bad for our season. We are 93% favorite there.

We need to beat Clemson to have any hope at an NCAA bid.

 

[RJKarl]

I understand why it FEELS like a timeout may have helped stop the run, but beyond speculating that calling timeout COULD have helped stop it, is there any data to back up that it would have helped us?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but a timeout isn't a magical cure. Personally I would have liked to see a timeout after FSU took the lead to discuss how to attack the press and the defense they were running to make sure the guys were up on it, but we didn't.

One of the major problems is we had Mitchell and or Brandon on the court while being pressed. Their size against F$U is a huge disadvantage. We also don't have a big to pass over a press with JC in constant foul trouble.

I was surprised FSU didn't press us more. If they get the ball out of Bryant's hands, they could use the press to dominate us.

 

[Deacsfan27]

We need to beat Clemson to have any hope at an NCAA bid.

No we don't.

Beat BC (x2), GT, State, Pitt, Miami

Beat two of: @State, @Pitt, @VPI, @Cuse

Steal literally any other game

That's 9-9 right there.