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Inside the slow death of Wake Forest basketball: A motorcycle, silence and stubborn h

Ayo said:
“it’s not quite that high.”

lol

There’s confirmation it is exactly what Goodman says it is.

Ron Wellman is a fucking incompetent buffoon. Unbelievable.
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I think he was a petty old fuck that wanted to double down to prove "I told you so" or "fuck you guys, anyway"

It wasn't incompetence
 
Ayo said:
“it’s not quite that high.”

lol

There’s confirmation it is exactly what Goodman says it is.

Ron Wellman is a fucking incompetent buffoon. Unbelievable.
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There's no confirmation whatsoever that it's true.

For it to be true, a person who had made dozens of coaching contracts would have had to sign one unlike any a coach for any program had signed. Show us ONE P5/P6 contract that FULLY guarantees bonuses a coach had never met. Just ONE...
 
RJKarl said:
For it to be true, a person who had made dozens of coaching contracts would have had to sign one unlike any a coach for any program had signed. Show us ONE P5/P6 contract that FULLY guarantees bonuses a coach had never met. Just ONE...
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You're the only person who thinks this is the case. The ONLY person. It's something you've created in your own mind to help support your made up BS. Unsurprisingly, you're also the only person that doesn't seem to understand, despite multiple posters spelling it out, that we have no idea what we're paying Manning right now and no public records to indicate as much due to the delayed reporting of salaries required of private schools.

Normal people just assume that if it's $18M guaranteed that the extension came with a pay raise, and the $18 million is equal to an average of $3 million in salary for the 6 years of the extension, which could be a straight $3M/year or could start lower and ramp up toe $3M+ by Y6.
 
RacerDeac said:
You're the only person who thinks this is the case. The ONLY person. It's something you've created in your own mind to help support your made up BS. Unsurprisingly, you're also the only person that doesn't seem to understand, despite multiple posters spelling it out, that we have no idea what we're paying Manning right now and no public records to indicate as much due to the delayed reporting of salaries required of private schools.

Normal people just assume that if it's $18M guaranteed that the extension came with a pay raise, and the $18 million is equal to an average of $3 million in salary for the 6 years of the extension, which could be a straight $3M/year or could start lower and ramp up toe $3M+ by Y6.
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Tend to agree with Racer


“Show us ONE P5/P6 contract that FULLY guarantees bonuses a coach had never met. Just ONE.”
Pretty tough ask.

Not only does rj have better sources than Goodman or anyone on these boards, he must also have a database of current P5/P6 contracts that nobody else has.
 
I am also not sure why he thinks the $18M number requires bonuses to be guaranteed?

Also, remember that Goodman's info came out in November 2018 when Manning actually had 7 seasons left under contract, not 6. This leak almost certainly came from Manning agent and likely stretched the truth in his favor (e.g. included the 2018-19 season even though he wouldn't have been fired until he had only 6 seasons under contract). But, if Goodman published the information it came from a source that should have had the information, and it almost certainly didn't come from the Wake side (because it makes Wellman look like a fucking idiot).
 
WFU Lurker said:
I am also not sure why he thinks the $18M number requires bonuses to be guaranteed?

Also, remember that Goodman's info came out in November 2018 when Manning actually had 7 seasons left under contract, not 6. This leak almost certainly came from Manning agent and likely stretched the truth in his favor. But, if Goodman published the information it came from a source that should have had the information, and it almost certainly didn't come from the Wake side (because it makes Wellman look like a fucking idiot).
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Danny's contract goes through 24-25. By Nov. 18-19, that year was already included. So he had the following remaing:

19-20
20-21
21-22
22-23
23-24
24-25

That's six years. But don't stop believing whatever you choose.

qc, if you can't show the contract, show a buyout that is 1/3 larger than the base salary for a period of five years or more. That should be reported somewhere. I even gave you the break of a contract not as long as Danny's.

 
Wake announced that Danny Manning's contract was extended to the end of the 2024-2025 basketball season. This is the only fact we know.

Goodman reported very cryptically that the value was $18 million and fully guaranteed. The Goodman report did not mention anything about bonuses being in the contract, and either included in the guaranteed amount or over and above that, if earned.

Because Goodman has a track record of being right, most accept his numbers. 6 years, $18 million. Most do the simple arithmetic and arrive at an annual value of $3 million. Thus the "buyout" in April 2020 would be about $15 million. Others have done calculations using an annually increasing salary. That calculation leaves the buyout above $15 million in April 2020.

There is no additional sourced information that has been presented or published. Every other discussion has been based on the Goodman report.

The next data point will be the WFU IRS filing which will be released in summer 2020. If all is right in the world, it will be of interest only as a solid data point for calculating the amount Danny will be paid not to coach Wake Men's basketball.

In a bad world, it will show both what he has been paid for part of the 2019-2020 season and be a very good indicator about what he will be being paid to coach in 2020-2021.

Until there are better sources, speculate away.
 
WFU Lurker said:
I am also not sure why he thinks the $18M number requires bonuses to be guaranteed?

Also, remember that Goodman's info came out in November 2018 when Manning actually had 7 seasons left under contract, not 6. This leak almost certainly came from Manning agent and likely stretched the truth in his favor (e.g. included the 2018-19 season even though he wouldn't have been fired until he had only 6 seasons under contract). But, if Goodman published the information it came from a source that should have had the information, and it almost certainly didn't come from the Wake side (because it makes Wellman look like a fucking idiot).
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If the past 9+ years have proven anything, it is that Wellman is a fucking idiot when it comes to basketball.
 
A salary progression that looks something like:

Year 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25
Salary 2.7 2.8 2.9 3.0 3.1 3.2 (million dollars per year).

Six year total is actually $17.7 million. Close enough to 18 for conversation. Or the numbers could have been adjusted to make an exact 18 million.
 
Deaconblue said:
A salary progression that looks something like:

Year 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25
Salary 2.7 2.8 2.9 3.0 3.1 3.2 (million dollars per year).

Six year total is actually $17.7 million. Close enough to 18 for conversation. Or the numbers could have been adjusted to make an exact 18 million.
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His first salary with Wake was about $1.7M. The rumors were the new, extended salary was $2.3M.

It's an assumption that there is a meager $100,000 raise per year. There's no evidence of it.

EDIT: His first contract included about $500,000 in incentives. It's unlikely his new contract didn't have them.
 
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RJKarl said:
His first salary with Wake was about $1.7M. The rumors were the new, extended salary was $2.3M.
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He made $1.99M in the fiscal year ending June 2018...that's all we know for sure.
 
RacerDeac said:
He made $1.99M in the fiscal year ending June 2018...that's all we know for sure.
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That’s one year before the six year extension so it’s very likely he’s making north of $2.5M this season.
 
RJKarl said:
Danny's contract goes through 24-25. By Nov. 18-19, that year was already included. So he had the following remaing:

19-20
20-21
21-22
22-23
23-24
24-25

That's six years. But don't stop believing whatever you choose.

qc, if you can't show the contract, show a buyout that is 1/3 larger than the base salary for a period of five years or more. That should be reported somewhere. I even gave you the break of a contract not as long as Danny's.

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In a fair representation of facts, yes 2018-19 would have been excluded from a buyout that was communicated in November of 2018, but whoever shared the numbers with Goodman would have had an agenda which was likely to represent that the buyout was as big as possible. My guess that what they communicated was if he was fired right then and there vs at the end of that season.

Why are you so certain of what the base salary is? It has not been publicly reported.
 
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Deaconblue said:
A salary progression that looks something like:

Year 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25
Salary 2.7 2.8 2.9 3.0 3.1 3.2 (million dollars per year).

Six year total is actually $17.7 million. Close enough to 18 for conversation. Or the numbers could have been adjusted to make an exact 18 million.
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What is the progression of lost revenue on ticket sales, concessions, parking fees, deacon fanwear, donations, and willed contributions.
 
“The Big Four games are always, all the games are special, all the games are unique in our league, but the Big Four games, they bring a different significance. Not necessarily for us, but I think to our communities, to the surrounding areas.”

Fuck right off with this shit.
 
I am going to go on record and say that if Manning wins at Chapel Hill and in Raleigh, and manages to win our 1st round ACC tourney game, he is likely to be here another goddamn year. And regardless of what I think about that, he will have arguably earned it.

I want Manning gone - for the simple reason he just isn't the dynamic program leader Wake needs. Most likely a wonderful human being and probably a nice mentor to young men, especially young black men, Danny is a very bad motivator, which makes him a lukewarm program head.

That being said, we've enjoyed the best 30 day run of ACC play since John Collins was here. We're 4-4 in February. I know that should be laughable, but if/when Manning is fired at the end of the season - we can point to the GTech and Miami home losses as the reason (and be thankful for those loses in context to our future). We are pretty fucking close to have a winning February record if we had played either one of those two games the way we have the rest of the month.

The emergence of Sarr as a lethal post player who can get position on either block and go left or right has allowed Danny to successfully and efficiently run the only offense he does pretty well. Without a reliable post presence, he really has no gameplan. With a post presence, we are okay to pretty good. We have done a better job of feeding the post than at any point in Manning's tenure. It used to kill me how hard Collins worked to insist on a post past from guys who just couldn't do this basic pass very well.

There is no denying that we actually have momentum going into a critical game on the road in Chapel Hill. I say critical because the team and players have to think they have a legit shot at the NIT as it stands today. I say that as a conflicted supporter. We are also a much better defensive team than last year than any year under Manning. I have to assume that Rex Walters plays a large role in that, but it is true.

I gave up on this team months ago. And yet here we sit. Like 98% of posters on here, I am anxious for a change, but I feel it is necessary to be open to facts, and facts are that Manning has a done a pretty good job with this team over the last month. He just has. I'm sort of happy for Manning. He is about as warm as a bowl of oatmeal left out for an hour, but that is as cold as he gets as well. He's handled the negative pressure a LOT better than Bzd. I really hope he enjoyed the Duke win. And the ND win. And if he wins at UNC, I'll be happy for him then too. I'd like to see him land on his feet somewhere, if that is what he wants.
 
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