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Inside the slow death of Wake Forest basketball: A motorcycle, silence and stubborn h

The major reason Sarr "emerged" is Danny finally started giving him the ball in the low post.
 
We’re near the bottom in a really bad 3-4 bid ACC. We’re nowhere near deserving the NIT. He has a lousy recruiting class coming in. Attendance is rock bottom. A generation of donors is tuned out.

If a couple wins against shitty peers outweighs all that then just burn it down.
 
It's been awhile since we could say we're tied for 11th at this point in the season.
 
RJKarl said:
The major reason Sarr "emerged" is Danny finally started giving him the ball in the low post.
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Sort of true. When I have watched Sarr this season, he fights for low post position and if he doesn't get the ball immediately, he's run out to set the screen for Chill to free him up to dribble around for another 15 seconds (sarcasm). But some of that was on Sarr who would get impatient/not see the value of keeping his position for a few seconds longer or swinging it over to the opposite block. Not letting Manning off the hook at all, but we collectively have gotten better at swinging the ball around and getting Sarr the ball on the block because he is playing with more patience and confidence.

But yes, it helps that we are now seeing that as our #1 option, not a shiny bright object to wave at and fake an entry pass. Sarr has improved his footwork, his ability to hold his position, and his moves with his back to the basket. He still sometimes takes the 12-foot jumper when given it and often he is taking that because he's winded. He should make his moves at the player and go to the rim. He's also become a better passer out of the post as well. Hard not to tip your cap to Manning on a lot of these improvements. They correlate to the improvements we saw out of Doral.
 
If we happen to beat a bad UNC team, a mediocre NC State team and a mid-tier ACC team in the ACCT during a bad conference year...that's not enough for DM to be back. He is by far the worst coach we've ever had...like not even close. DM has three 20 loss seasons, a 19 loss season and the potential for an 18 loss season out of SIX seasons.

The decision to let him go has either been made or we should just burn it all to the ground and spend resources elsewhere.
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
If we happen to beat a bad UNC team, a mediocre NC State team and a mid-tier ACC team in the ACCT during a bad conference year...that's not enough for DM to be back. He is by far the worst coach we've ever had...like not even close. DM has three 20 loss seasons, a 19 loss season and the potential for an 18 loss season out of SIX seasons.

The decision to let him go has either been made or we should just burn it all to the ground and spend resources elsewhere.
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I agree it shouldn't be enough, but have you watched games in February? I am of the opine that would be healthy to look at the whole picture. I think Manning has been horrific in at least three of the six years he's been here. We had huge troubling attrition before at the conclusion of a lot of those years. We are still paying for that attrition this year. But, the guys he's lost in seasons past have stayed (so far) and if I was grading Manning, this is his best coaching job since 2017. Again, we are not going to the dance, we are likely not even going to end the year with a winning record, but he hasn't been horrific this year. He's been okay. He's taken the cold outmeal, put in the microwave, heated it up, added a bit more milk and sugar and it hasn't tasted half bad. That doesn't change the fact that it's still oatmeal though - not really the meal I'm craving.
 
The only way we could possibly be on the NIT bubble not making the NCAA is to win these last two games and make it to the ACC finals
 
Unless Manning wins the ACC Tourny and makes the NCAA Tourny he should be fired point blank period,thats the only time hes got a case and even then if i was Currie i would fire his ass.
 
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In 6 seasons Manning has never had a winning record in conference and his best finish is 10th. We may have played reasonably well in February but in year 6 we should be ranked and competing for a top 4 seed in the NCAA tournament. Those are the standards for this program and he is still miles away.
 
06deacon said:
We’re near the bottom in a really bad 3-4 bid ACC. We’re nowhere near deserving the NIT. He has a lousy recruiting class coming in. Attendance is rock bottom. A generation of donors is tuned out.

If a couple wins against shitty peers outweighs all that then just burn it down.
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Agree with all this, but the ACC is getting 4-5 bids. UVA is a lock for a bid. 9-1 last 10 with only loss at Louisville. 13-5, 21-7. Even if they lose out, 13-7 and 21-10 defending NCAA champs aren't going to be left out.
 
jaybone said:
I agree it shouldn't be enough, but have you watched games in February? I am of the opine that would be healthy to look at the whole picture. I think Manning has been horrific in at least three of the six years he's been here. We had huge troubling attrition before at the conclusion of a lot of those years. We are still paying for that attrition this year. But, the guys he's lost in seasons past have stayed (so far) and if I was grading Manning, this is his best coaching job since 2017. Again, we are not going to the dance, we are likely not even going to end the year with a winning record, but he hasn't been horrific this year. He's been okay. He's taken the cold outmeal, put in the microwave, heated it up, added a bit more milk and sugar and it hasn't tasted half bad. That doesn't change the fact that it's still oatmeal though - not really the meal I'm craving.
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To paraphrase Hall & Oats (who opened for Sha Na Na at Wait Chapel), He's gone, we should learn how to face it, He's gone.
 
RJKarl said:
The major reason Sarr "emerged" is Danny finally started giving him the ball in the low post.
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This is incorrect. We fed Sarr down low a lot at the beginning of the year, he just couldn't do much when he got the ball. His offensive post game has significantly improved.

But this points out the weakness of Manning's offensive game plan. It only works when there is a really effective low post player on the floor. When Ody replaces Sarr we continue to feed the post (Manning has even put Mucius down there), and it's not nearly as effective.
 
In the early season, Brandon didn't make many post passes. Often, when he did, there wasn't enough space for Sarr. Our center got position and the pass was either late or not thrown.
 
RJKarl said:
In the early season, Brandon didn't make many post passes. Often, when he did, there wasn't enough space for Sarr. Our center got position and the pass was either late or not thrown.
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We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Sarr got the ball in the post plenty early in the year, but he had no post moves and finished poorly. That is why the "feed the post" game plan was so ineffective early in the year.

Sarr just received a national player of the week award. If you think that's just because he's getting the ball more, then we're seeing different things when watching the game.

Sarr now has an array of moves, confidence, and finishes well with both hands. Despite this, relying almost solely on his low-post presence is a risky strategy for Manning, as Sarr can still disappear at times.
 
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Rafi said:
This is incorrect. We fed Sarr down low a lot at the beginning of the year, he just couldn't do much when he got the ball. His offensive post game has significantly improved.

But this points out the weakness of Manning's offensive game plan. It only works when there is a really effective low post player on the floor. When Ody replaces Sarr we continue to feed the post (Manning has even put Mucius down there), and it's not nearly as effective.
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This
 
Hard to disagree with Jaybone on this thread. Manning should not be here but he has done by far the best job of coaching since he arrived.

He has surpassed reasonable expectations so what was the logic in giving him another year.

Considering his abilities, this year was the absolute best case scenario for Manning.
 
My point is more a response to how toxic any "discussion" has become in this country than Manning specifically.

I should be able to be opposed to Trump without having to slander him as the devil incarnate (not always successful here); ditto for AOC et al.

I find it sad that we can all agree essentially that Manning's tenure as Wake hoops coach should come to an end at some point in the days after our exit from the ACC tournament. However, how we "discuss" that feels so empty. Does the internet force us to pick sides on every debate and transform into fucking Ted Cruz? Why? Ketchup or Mayonaisse? Can one appreciate another's love of mayo despite being a "ketchup guy."

Some posters have labeled Manning "lazy," which a majority on here can agree is a tried and true dog whistle thrown at Black Americans for generations. I actually come on here to learn things and share some opinions. I learn more things than I share, honestly. I don't get the ginned up animosity over stuff we are in 90% agreement on. Hashtag sad. Hashtag unsuccessing
 
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knowell said:
Hard to disagree with Jaybone on this thread. Manning should not be here but he has done by far the best job of coaching since he arrived.

He has surpassed reasonable expectations so what was the logic in giving him another year.

Considering his abilities, this year was the absolute best case scenario for Manning.
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Thanks.
 
Jaybone, you ignorant slut. It’s all Duke’s mayonnaise these days. On this there can be no debate
 
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