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Inside the slow death of Wake Forest basketball: A motorcycle, silence and stubborn h

knowell said:
Hard to disagree with Jaybone on this thread. Manning should not be here but he has done by far the best job of coaching since he arrived.

He has surpassed reasonable expectations so what was the logic in giving him another year.

Considering his abilities, this year was the absolute best case scenario for Manning.
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Rex Walters
 
jaybone said:
My point is more a response to how toxic any "discussion" has become in this country than Manning specifically.

I should be able to be opposed to Trump without having to slander him as the devil incarnate (not always successful here); ditto for AOC et al.

I find it sad that we can all agree essentially that Manning's tenure as Wake hoops coach should come to an end at some point in the days after our exit from the ACC tournament. However, how we "discuss" that feels so empty. Does the internet force us to pick sides on every debate and transform into fucking Ted Cruz? Why? Ketchup or Mayonaisse? Can one appreciate another's love of mayo despite being a "ketchup guy."

Some posters have labeled Manning "lazy," which a majority on here can agree is a tried and true dog whistle thrown at Black Americans for generations. I actually come on here to learn things and share some opinions. I learn more things than I share, honestly. I don't get the ginned up animosity over stuff we are in 90% agreement on. Hashtag sad. Hashtag unsuccessing
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I seriously doubt anyone here is saying Danny being "lazy" has anything whatsoever to do with his race.

 
Pretty comical idea that Danny "paint touches" Manning has only just now told our guards to pass it to Sarr and that's why we're better. I couldn't believe how bad Sarr was at the beginning of the year. He'd try to post up and simply couldn't hold his position. We'd try forcing the ball into him and it'd get knocked away. If he did get it down low he'd put himself in awkward positions and get blocked or miss layups. He hung around the perimeter and shot 3's and long jumpers instead. Occasionally he'd make a few for a decent stat line. He probably had less than 5 dunks in first half of the season. He's gotten tons of minutes all year.

He's clearly worked his ass off on holding defenders while receiving lob entry passes. Night and day difference. He also must have spent hours and hours going left and right with those baby hooks, and worked on his one dribble and get to the rim moves when a defender tries to play up and defend his mid-range jumper. Suddenly he's a legit 7 footer who can hit 15 footers and finish with both hands. If he could take it to the rack and finish through contact he'd be truly elite. Well, that and if he'd stop getting lost so often on defense.
 
RJKarl said:
I seriously doubt anyone here is saying Danny being "lazy" has anything whatsoever to do with his race.
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That is not what I said. I said it was an unnecessary dog whistle. Perhaps you don't understand the term: dog whistles are heard by dogs but not by humans. There is some language that is particularly hurtful to various races and can be used both on purpose by racists and obliviously by non-racist people who don't understand (or want to understand/believe) the racist history behind that usage.
 
You could argue Manning actually has done a pretty terrible job coaching this year, playing Torry Johnson over Neath all year is damn criminal. Manning is stubborn and has terrible lineup combinations. this is year 6 with a plenty of experienced upperclassmen. with good coaching we have 10 ACC wins right now. in year 6 Manning is the same shitty coach hes always been and Duke blowing a 9 point lead with 1:15 doesnt change that.
 
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bigboy8 said:
You could argue Manning actually has done a pretty terrible job coaching this year, playing Torry Johnson over Neath all year is damn criminal. Manning is stubborn and has terrible lineup combinations. this is year 6 with a plenty of experienced upperclassmen. with good coaching we have 10 ACC wins right now. in year 6 Manning is the same shitty coach hes always been and Duke blowing a 9 point lead with 1:15 doesnt change that.
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wow, don't fall off the limb
 
DCDeac said:
Pretty comical idea that Danny "paint touches" Manning has only just now told our guards to pass it to Sarr and that's why we're better. I couldn't believe how bad Sarr was at the beginning of the year. He'd try to post up and simply couldn't hold his position. We'd try forcing the ball into him and it'd get knocked away. If he did get it down low he'd put himself in awkward positions and get blocked or miss layups. He hung around the perimeter and shot 3's and long jumpers instead. Occasionally he'd make a few for a decent stat line. He probably had less than 5 dunks in first half of the season. He's gotten tons of minutes all year.
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He's taken seven 3-pointers this season; two of them in the first 14 games. I'd wager he had close to 5 dunks against UNCA alone.

He had a shitty first two games and that's metastasized for some to mean he was awful for the first two months. He's been the most consistent player on the team, in part because of how streaky Brandon is/Chaundee's injuries/Andrien's down-up-down season, but also in part because he's developed and learned how to handle extra weight.
 
That was in response to jaybone saying Manning has coached decent this year which is a terrible take.
 
jaybone said:
That is not what I said. I said it was an unnecessary dog whistle. Perhaps you don't understand the term: dog whistles are heard by dogs but not by humans. There is some language that is particularly hurtful to various races and can be used both on purpose by racists and obliviously by non-racist people who don't understand (or want to understand/believe) the racist history behind that usage.
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Dance, dance...
 
CONeill said:
He's taken seven 3-pointers this season; two of them in the first 14 games. I'd wager he had close to 5 dunks against UNCA alone.

He had a shitty first two games and that's metastasized for some to mean he was awful for the first two months. He's been the most consistent player on the team, in part because of how streaky Brandon is/Chaundee's injuries/Andrien's down-up-down season, but also in part because he's developed and learned how to handle extra weight.
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He's way better than he was at the start of the year. In fact, someone on Twitter posted this, "Olivier Sarr's scoring average went from 12.4 entering last week to 13.6 now. Pretty wild to jump your average that much in the 26th and 27th games of your season."
 
DCDeac said:
Pretty comical idea that Danny "paint touches" Manning has only just now told our guards to pass it to Sarr and that's why we're better. I couldn't believe how bad Sarr was at the beginning of the year. He'd try to post up and simply couldn't hold his position. We'd try forcing the ball into him and it'd get knocked away. If he did get it down low he'd put himself in awkward positions and get blocked or miss layups. He hung around the perimeter and shot 3's and long jumpers instead. Occasionally he'd make a few for a decent stat line. He probably had less than 5 dunks in first half of the season. He's gotten tons of minutes all year.

He's clearly worked his ass off on holding defenders while receiving lob entry passes. Night and day difference. He also must have spent hours and hours going left and right with those baby hooks, and worked on his one dribble and get to the rim moves when a defender tries to play up and defend his mid-range jumper. Suddenly he's a legit 7 footer who can hit 15 footers and finish with both hands. If he could take it to the rack and finish through contact he'd be truly elite. Well, that and if he'd stop getting lost so often on defense.
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WTF are you talking about? In the first ten games, Sarr took exactly TWO 3 pointers.
 
CONeill said:
He's taken seven 3-pointers this season; two of them in the first 14 games. I'd wager he had close to 5 dunks against UNCA alone.

He had a shitty first two games and that's metastasized for some to mean he was awful for the first two months. He's been the most consistent player on the team, in part because of how streaky Brandon is/Chaundee's injuries/Andrien's down-up-down season, but also in part because he's developed and learned how to handle extra weight.
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Conor - any thoughts on where you (and the other voters) will pencil in Sarr when you vote for the all-ACC teams?

he's #3 in the ACC in PER; #6 in WS/40; #2 in rebounds, top 20 in scoring

he does play for a horrible team but so did Ky Bowman last year - Bowman's advanced stats were not as good although his counting stat (points) was stronger
 
CONeill said:
He's taken seven 3-pointers this season; two of them in the first 14 games. I'd wager he had close to 5 dunks against UNCA alone.

He had a shitty first two games and that's metastasized for some to mean he was awful for the first two months. He's been the most consistent player on the team, in part because of how streaky Brandon is/Chaundee's injuries/Andrien's down-up-down season, but also in part because he's developed and learned how to handle extra weight.
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UNCA played 5 guards for a lot of that game. Definitely remember more 3's but maybe it was more long 2's. Dumping the JV UNCA game he started out 5 for 23 against powerhouse centers from BC, Columbia, and Charlotte. He made 3 layups, zero dunks, and 80% of his attempts were jumpers.

I don't blame anyone for not watching our early games but Sarr was a mess to start the year. Tons of missed jumpers and weak play anywhere near the basket - the argument that he's was good all along but is only now getting touches is laughable.
 
He had two crappy games to start. In his next 8 games here are his stats:

Scoring - 14.6
Reb- 11.4
FG% - 54.9
FT% - 79.2

That's not shitty.
 
Can we get past the throwaway line in DCDeac's post about Sarr ?

Thanks in advance.
 
DCDeac said:
UNCA played 5 guards for a lot of that game. Definitely remember more 3's but maybe it was more long 2's. Dumping the JV UNCA game he started out 5 for 23 against powerhouse centers from BC, Columbia, and Charlotte. He made 3 layups, zero dunks, and 80% of his attempts were jumpers.

I don't blame anyone for not watching our early games but Sarr was a mess to start the year. Tons of missed jumpers and weak play anywhere near the basket - the argument that he's was good all along but is only now getting touches is laughable.
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I have to agree with DCDeac for earlier this year. 'weak play around basket' is a very polite way of saying. If he has only taken 7 -3s How many did he make? I very distinctly remember in a pretty recent game we were up double digits (surprising) in the 2nd half, Sarr took a way out 3, early clock, and another soon after, IIRC, tide changed at that point and we went on to blow the lead.

That said, he has made a Drastic change for the better. Playing a very very positive role. Good for him and us. I also agree with a post above. I think Rex Walters has helped a positive change in the team overall. Remember we never played any zone? We do now and it has been very effective, Clemson comes to mind. There has been noticeable progress recently.
 
bigboy8 said:
That was in response to jaybone saying Manning has coached decent this year which is a terrible take.
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That is actually not what I said, I said he's had a pretty decent month of February and this is his best coaching job since 2017 (and we went to the First 4 and lost). That is not a rip-roaring endorsement in my book. I've liked watching this team. We still commit 4 or 5 turnovers a game (not against ND, however) that screams coaching to me - these are turnovers you just don't see other programs making that frequently, and THAT is an indictment. But we've been enjoyable to watch for the most part on the back 9 of the ACC season. That's something.
 
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