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Thread: Wake Baseball 2021 | oh no we suck again!

  1. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by Bones McKinney View Post
    who do we get as our new coach to bring us back from said depths the program is in? we need pitching, hitting and fielding. other than that we are a pretty good baseball team
    I don't know enough about the baseball coaching ranks or trends to know. But basically a baseball Forbes.

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by Deacs86 View Post
    where was his selfish at bats comment? can't see video from after game three. looking forward to seeing tho.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS8igf2o83Y

  3. #743
    So, pouring money into facilities has gotten us this far? Hmm.

  4. #744
    Walter is a good man but not a good on-field/in-the-dugout guy, and they don't put any emphasis on fundamentals of baseball in practice, which is why they make errors, run bases poorly, throw to wrong bases, why they don't hit and run and play situational baseball, and don't do the little things needed to win games. They only emphasize analytics and launch angles in hitting and maximizing velocity on the mound, and whoever said on here that he makes the players nervous and has no relationship with them is 100 percent right but he is not the real problem. It's the shitbag hitting coach/recruiting coordinator Cilento who is the cancer on that team. Walter is extremely loyal to Cilento and lets him do whatever he wants and he doesn't know what he's doing. He is the real problem. Cilento has one or two favorites on a team ever year and otherwise he shits on everyone else and doesn't give them any help. Ask any former player. He has no business being a hitting coach for a power 5 school. He doesn't know how to make hitters better. he recruits kids who hit the ball out of the park in Wake's ballpark so give him credit for that but the whole "player development" thing is bullshit. They don't develop hitters. All the top players who get drafted in higher rounds (Sheets, Fairchild, Mondou, Aiello, etc.) all had their own hitting coaches they worked with in the offseason and in many cases during the season. Sheets had his dad who played in the majors and used to laugh at Cilento. Aiello and Fairchild used to drive to Raleigh on off days during the season and even sometimes after practice to work with a private hitting coach there because Cilento has no clue. Walter's biggest fault is his undying loyalty to Cilento and his willingness to let Cilento make too many important decisions.

  5. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by Kent View Post
    I don't know enough about the baseball coaching ranks or trends to know. But basically a baseball Forbes.
    And to answer the actual question, a great fit is going to be a head coach at a nearby mid-major school.

    If I am Wake's AD I am going after Robert Woodard from UNC Charlotte (former Tar Heel great as a pitcher and longtime UNC pitching coach) or Billy Godwin from UNC Greensboro. Both rising stars in coaching ranks and they can help Wake start recruiting more Carolina players. There is plenty of talent in North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia and South Carolina yet Wake only recruits out of state kids from the northeast.

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDeacs View Post
    Walter is a good man but not a good on-field/in-the-dugout guy, and they don't put any emphasis on fundamentals of baseball in practice, which is why they make errors, run bases poorly, throw to wrong bases, why they don't hit and run and play situational baseball, and don't do the little things needed to win games. They only emphasize analytics and launch angles in hitting and maximizing velocity on the mound, and whoever said on here that he makes the players nervous and has no relationship with them is 100 percent right but he is not the real problem. It's the shitbag hitting coach/recruiting coordinator Cilento who is the cancer on that team. Walter is extremely loyal to Cilento and lets him do whatever he wants and he doesn't know what he's doing. He is the real problem. Cilento has one or two favorites on a team ever year and otherwise he shits on everyone else and doesn't give them any help. Ask any former player. He has no business being a hitting coach for a power 5 school. He doesn't know how to make hitters better. he recruits kids who hit the ball out of the park in Wake's ballpark so give him credit for that but the whole "player development" thing is bullshit. They don't develop hitters. All the top players who get drafted in higher rounds (Sheets, Fairchild, Mondou, Aiello, etc.) all had their own hitting coaches they worked with in the offseason and in many cases during the season. Sheets had his dad who played in the majors and used to laugh at Cilento. Aiello and Fairchild used to drive to Raleigh on off days during the season and even sometimes after practice to work with a private hitting coach there because Cilento has no clue. Walter's biggest fault is his undying loyalty to Cilento and his willingness to let Cilento make too many important decisions.
    Will Craigís agent was/is his hitting coach as well to reiterate Diamond Deacs post. 100 percent spot on about cilento picking favorites and not giving a fuck about anyone else. The running joke about that guy is he always has a mouth full of dip to make him sound even more dumb when he talks. We used to call him Billy ball everyone knows he has no business coaching at d1 level.

  7. #747
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    Would Cliff Godwin at ECU be an option? He has the Pirates playing very good baseball. I know he's from Eastern NC and played at ECU, but he'd be an amazing get for the Deacs. Extremely likeable guy and apparently a great manager

  8. #748
    Godwin is an obvious choice but didn't mention him because I wouldn't leave Greenville to go to Wake he's got everything he needs right there.

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by BacktoBack View Post
    Would Cliff Godwin at ECU be an option? He has the Pirates playing very good baseball. I know he's from Eastern NC and played at ECU, but he'd be an amazing get for the Deacs. Extremely likeable guy and apparently a great manager
    Doubt he leaves ECU. Also doubt Walter leaves Wake after the season. But after hearing from previous posts, sounds like a smart move by Walter would be to have some self reflection and find a better coaching staff.

  10. #750
    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDeacs View Post
    Walter is a good man but not a good on-field/in-the-dugout guy, and they don't put any emphasis on fundamentals of baseball in practice, which is why they make errors, run bases poorly, throw to wrong bases, why they don't hit and run and play situational baseball, and don't do the little things needed to win games. They only emphasize analytics and launch angles in hitting and maximizing velocity on the mound, and whoever said on here that he makes the players nervous and has no relationship with them is 100 percent right but he is not the real problem. It's the shitbag hitting coach/recruiting coordinator Cilento who is the cancer on that team. Walter is extremely loyal to Cilento and lets him do whatever he wants and he doesn't know what he's doing. He is the real problem. Cilento has one or two favorites on a team ever year and otherwise he shits on everyone else and doesn't give them any help. Ask any former player. He has no business being a hitting coach for a power 5 school. He doesn't know how to make hitters better. he recruits kids who hit the ball out of the park in Wake's ballpark so give him credit for that but the whole "player development" thing is bullshit. They don't develop hitters. All the top players who get drafted in higher rounds (Sheets, Fairchild, Mondou, Aiello, etc.) all had their own hitting coaches they worked with in the offseason and in many cases during the season. Sheets had his dad who played in the majors and used to laugh at Cilento. Aiello and Fairchild used to drive to Raleigh on off days during the season and even sometimes after practice to work with a private hitting coach there because Cilento has no clue. Walter's biggest fault is his undying loyalty to Cilento and his willingness to let Cilento make too many important decisions.
    Funny ass story about cilento ineptitude. My second year they had two former MLB players (antonelli and díantoni) back as grad assistant coaches in the fall who helped out primarily with hitting. There was this kid matt Martin who Walter kicked off the team all 3 years he was there who ended up still getting drafted for like 100k despite never even playing at wake. Anyways this kid had no filter and cilento tried to give him hitting advice and he flat out told the guy heíd rather take advice from antonelli and dantoni because they played in the major leagues and he liked their coaching better. If you coulda seen the look on cilentos face omg.

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by Deacs86 View Post
    Funny ass story about cilento ineptitude. My second year they had two former MLB players (antonelli and díantoni) back as grad assistant coaches in the fall who helped out primarily with hitting. There was this kid matt Martin who Walter kicked off the team all 3 years he was there who ended up still getting drafted for like 100k despite never even playing at wake. Anyways this kid had no filter and cilento tried to give him hitting advice and he flat out told the guy heíd rather take advice from antonelli and dantoni because they played in the major leagues and he liked their coaching better. If you coulda seen the look on cilentos face omg.
    Now that is priceless!

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDeacs View Post
    And to answer the actual question, a great fit is going to be a head coach at a nearby mid-major school.

    If I am Wake's AD I am going after Robert Woodard from UNC Charlotte (former Tar Heel great as a pitcher and longtime UNC pitching coach) or Billy Godwin from UNC Greensboro. Both rising stars in coaching ranks and they can help Wake start recruiting more Carolina players. There is plenty of talent in North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia and South Carolina yet Wake only recruits out of state kids from the northeast.
    Not exactly. WF recruits from all over. WF has 9 players on the current roster from NC , 8 players from Florida (WF's top recruit in the 2020 class was catcher Jackson Miller from FL and signed with the Reds after being taken in the 3rd round), 2 from GA and 2 from VA. ACC 2019 POY Bobby Seymour is from Indiana. Recent WF draft picks Stuart Fairchild was from the State of Washington, Griffin Roberts from VA, Will Craig is from TN, Patrick Frick was from SC, Collin Peluse and Gavin Sheets were from MD, Parker Dunshee is from Indiana, and Donnie Sellers is from NC.

    WF 2021 class includes commits from the following states: 5 from NC, 3 from NY, 2 from FL, 2 from PA and 1 from MD.


    There is a lot to criticize about the WF baseball program, but recruiting hasn't been the problem.

    WF has signed the best players from wherever they are from, not just one area.
    Last edited by Pilchard; 04-20-2021 at 05:06 PM.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchard View Post
    Not exactly. WF recruits from all over. WF has 9 players on the current roster from NC , 8 players from Florida (WF's top recruit in the 2020 class was catcher Jackson Miller from FL and signed with the Reds after being taken in the 3rd round), 2 from GA and 2 from VA. ACC 2019 POY Bobby Seymour is from Indiana. Recent WF draft picks Stuart Fairchild was from the State of Washington, Griffin Roberts from VA, Will Craig is from TN, Patrick Frick was from SC, Collin Peluse and Gavin Sheets were from MD, Parker Dunshee is from Indiana, and Donnie Sellers is from NC.

    WF 2021 class includes commits from the following states: 5 from NC, 3 from NY, 2 from FL, 2 from PA and 1 from MD.


    There is a lot to criticize about the WF baseball program, but recruiting hasn't been the problem.

    WF has signed the best players from wherever they are from, not just one area.
    Thanks for the geography lesson but if you are saying "WF has signed the best players from wherever they are from, not just one area." then where are the wins?

    Their individual numbers are impressive. Seymour and Lanzilli have posted numbers that will rank near the top in Wake Forest history. Congratulations to them. But who cares when you can't win baseball games.

    Part of it is these guys are one dimensional players who are simply not winners. They are not mentally tough. They are showcase superstars. That's what they recruit.

    And since you are pretty much saying that despite recruiting the "best players from wherever they are from" why does Wake Forest still not win?

    Maybe it has something to do with the character of the players they recruit. If you played a sport at a high level you would know that is pretty fucking important.

    Wake Forest recruits asshole showcase baseball players and they play like a showcase baseball team. Have you ever been to a Perfect Game tournament like the World Championship in Jupiter or any of these stupid PG events? That's what Wake Forest is. They are the next level of the the high school super-teams that they put together for Perfect Game tournaments and that's all the Deacon coaches especially Cilento really cares about. They want to showcase players with one plus tool and see that player get drafted high and then brag about how they "developed" that player into a potential big leaguer that they can put up on the wall of their multi-million dollar clubhouse and say "we developed 26 MLB draftees over the past five years..."

    And thats fine it that is the formula and as long as the Wake administration is happy with that and if that is what they are gonna hang their hat on then good on them.

    But if you are a true Wake Forest fan who wants to see and support winning baseball, then you can keep on waiting and hoping, This coaching regime deserves credit for getting some of their guys drafted but please don't be fooled. They don't have what it takes to turn players into a team that can win consistently in the ACC. That is the formula at Wake, and the couple of showcase guys they have every year are the only players the coaching staff cares about. It's all about adding names to the wall in the "Player Development Center" who got drafted.... in theory there is nothing wrong with that. But if you really care about Wake Forest baseball and winning, it's a bad formula.

    Unfortunately, no one in the very small Wake fanbase really truly cares about winning baseball in Winston Salem. The very small base of true Wake Forest baseball fans is happy to show up for a weekend game at The Couch, drink a few cold beers, watch the Deacon meatheads from Pennsylvania and Boston hit a few home runs over a 300 foot fence, watch a guy throw upper 90s for a few innings, complain about infielders who can't make routine plays and botch simple things over the course of a game, and then just go home to their million dollar houses off Reynolda and Stratford Road and then still stroke a check to the program when the fundraising monster comes a calling.

    If you think otherwise you are delusional. The coaches dont give a fuck about winning baseball games or developing winning players. And it is obvious that the very small fanbase and top-level boosters is content with the rash of bullshit that the used car salesmen running this program feed them.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDeacs View Post
    Thanks for the geography lesson but if you are saying "WF has signed the best players from wherever they are from, not just one area." then where are the wins?

    Their individual numbers are impressive. Seymour and Lanzilli have posted numbers that will rank near the top in Wake Forest history. Congratulations to them. But who cares when you can't win baseball games.

    Part of it is these guys are one dimensional players who are simply not winners. They are not mentally tough. They are showcase superstars. That's what they recruit.

    And since you are pretty much saying that despite recruiting the "best players from wherever they are from" why does Wake Forest still not win?

    Maybe it has something to do with the character of the players they recruit. If you played a sport at a high level you would know that is pretty fucking important.

    Wake Forest recruits asshole showcase baseball players and they play like a showcase baseball team. Have you ever been to a Perfect Game tournament like the World Championship in Jupiter or any of these stupid PG events? That's what Wake Forest is. They are the next level of the the high school super-teams that they put together for Perfect Game tournaments and that's all the Deacon coaches especially Cilento really cares about. They want to showcase players with one plus tool and see that player get drafted high and then brag about how they "developed" that player into a potential big leaguer that they can put up on the wall of their multi-million dollar clubhouse and say "we developed 26 MLB draftees over the past five years..."

    And thats fine it that is the formula and as long as the Wake administration is happy with that and if that is what they are gonna hang their hat on then good on them.

    But if you are a true Wake Forest fan who wants to see and support winning baseball, then you can keep on waiting and hoping, This coaching regime deserves credit for getting some of their guys drafted but please don't be fooled. They don't have what it takes to turn players into a team that can win consistently in the ACC. That is the formula at Wake, and the couple of showcase guys they have every year are the only players the coaching staff cares about. It's all about adding names to the wall in the "Player Development Center" who got drafted.... in theory there is nothing wrong with that. But if you really care about Wake Forest baseball and winning, it's a bad formula.

    Unfortunately, no one in the very small Wake fanbase really truly cares about winning baseball in Winston Salem. The very small base of true Wake Forest baseball fans is happy to show up for a weekend game at The Couch, drink a few cold beers, watch the Deacon meatheads from Pennsylvania and Boston hit a few home runs over a 300 foot fence, watch a guy throw upper 90s for a few innings, complain about infielders who can't make routine plays and botch simple things over the course of a game, and then just go home to their million dollar houses off Reynolda and Stratford Road and then still stroke a check to the program when the fundraising monster comes a calling.

    If you think otherwise you are delusional. The coaches dont give a fuck about winning baseball games or developing winning players. And it is obvious that the very small fanbase and top-level boosters is content with the rash of bullshit that the used car salesmen running this program feed them.
    I agree and disagree to an extent. Recruiting toolsy players is a must if you want to compete. However when they are one dimensional power guys only thatís where the problem lies. If every player on wakes team was a Stuart Fairchild player they would certainly be in Omaha every year. However, look at this years team for example. Muntz Seymour lanzilli tinsman wilken are all butchers in the field who strike out a ton. Itís like cilento and Walter go overboard in recruiting boom or bust guys for their stadium dimensions.

  15. #755
    What it really comes down to is Tom Walter is a fucking loser. Cilento is just a product of that. Why you think any decent assistant coach in Hobbs left at the first opportunity. Pitching coach before him Healy was perhaps a bigger asshole than cilento.

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDeacs View Post
    And to answer the actual question, a great fit is going to be a head coach at a nearby mid-major school.

    If I am Wake's AD I am going after Robert Woodard from UNC Charlotte (former Tar Heel great as a pitcher and longtime UNC pitching coach) or Billy Godwin from UNC Greensboro. Both rising stars in coaching ranks and they can help Wake start recruiting more Carolina players. There is plenty of talent in North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia and South Carolina yet Wake only recruits out of state kids from the northeast.
    with the facilitie and ability to recruit here you should be able to win
    Last edited by ChrisL68; 04-20-2021 at 08:12 PM.

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by Deacs86 View Post
    I agree and disagree to an extent. Recruiting toolsy players is a must if you want to compete. However when they are one dimensional power guys only thatís where the problem lies. If every player on wakes team was a Stuart Fairchild player they would certainly be in Omaha every year. However, look at this years team for example. Muntz Seymour lanzilli tinsman wilken are all butchers in the field who strike out a ton. Itís like cilento and Walter go overboard in recruiting boom or bust guys for their stadium dimensions.
    Deacs86 I totally agree, you always want tools and Stu Fairchild was a freak 5-tool guy who also had the "sixth tool" which is the intangibles and the compete tool that most of the one-tool, one-dimensional players Wake recruits/players lack. Gavin Sheets is a two-tool guy but had the third intangible tool of being a competitor and will play in the big leagues, and he knows how to win. Dunshee and Connor Johnstone are not the typical guys who get recruited and/or drafted in the modern game but they are on the doorstep of pitching in the big leagues and they won at Wake. The 2017 club was an anomaly. They caught lightning in a bottle with that group because that was right at the end of the old-wave baseball player. They had several guys with pro ability as evidenced by the fact that Dunshee, Johnstone, Breazeale, Sellers, Sheets, Fairchild, Prior, played professional baseball, but all of those guys also were the product of a different era when the compete tool and the character tool mattered. That team won a regional and was one cunt hair away from going to Omaha in spite of the subpar coaching. I think a different coaching staff gets that team to the CWS. There were some horrible moves made in that Super regional series at Florida but those fuckers found a way to almost win it.Thats neither here nor there the point I am trying to make is that this new generation of players is loaded with showcase performers who have never played competitive baseball. When you play in places like massachussets and Pennsylvania the competition is shit and you can roll on your raw ability and dominate that level of baseball in HS and then you can find a national; showcase travel team to play on and still go to perfect game events and flex your muscles and hit bombs or throw 98 and get noticed.. but generally speaking those guys are horrible fundamental players and fold like a cheap tent when the chips are down in a weekend ACC series.

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDeacs View Post
    Deacs86 I totally agree, you always want tools and Stu Fairchild was a freak 5-tool guy who also had the "sixth tool" which is the intangibles and the compete tool that most of the one-tool, one-dimensional players Wake recruits/players lack. Gavin Sheets is a two-tool guy but had the third intangible tool of being a competitor and will play in the big leagues, and he knows how to win. Dunshee and Connor Johnstone are not the typical guys who get recruited and/or drafted in the modern game but they are on the doorstep of pitching in the big leagues and they won at Wake. The 2017 club was an anomaly. They caught lightning in a bottle with that group because that was right at the end of the old-wave baseball player. They had several guys with pro ability as evidenced by the fact that Dunshee, Johnstone, Breazeale, Sellers, Sheets, Fairchild, Prior, played professional baseball, but all of those guys also were the product of a different era when the compete tool and the character tool mattered. That team won a regional and was one cunt hair away from going to Omaha in spite of the subpar coaching. I think a different coaching staff gets that team to the CWS. There were some horrible moves made in that Super regional series at Florida but those fuckers found a way to almost win it.Thats neither here nor there the point I am trying to make is that this new generation of players is loaded with showcase performers who have never played competitive baseball. When you play in places like massachussets and Pennsylvania the competition is shit and you can roll on your raw ability and dominate that level of baseball in HS and then you can find a national; showcase travel team to play on and still go to perfect game events and flex your muscles and hit bombs or throw 98 and get noticed.. but generally speaking those guys are horrible fundamental players and fold like a cheap tent when the chips are down in a weekend ACC series.
    At the end of the day talent plays. The best perfect game players end up being the highest drafted players and the best players from which to recruit from. Wake hasnít historically gotten those kinds of kids committed. Iím talking elite level guys too 100 perfect game players. Theyíve been hitting a little bit more recently with garret whitley, grant lavinge, Jackson Miller, and this year they have a left handed pitcher Hartle who should sign for ~2 million. Wilken was another solid pickup. Fairchild was a pretty touted guy outta HS yet Craig and sheets were not so you gotta give them some credit for landing those guys where a school like Vanderbilt might not have even known who will Craig was. Under the radar for sure. The problem lies in the majority of your team, the non ďsuperstarsĒ at the college level. The reason Florida, Louisville, Vanderbilt win is because their recruiting too to bottom is significantly better than wake. Recruits 3-10 are way way better than wakes. Walter will lay the scholarship situation on you to explain the lack of depth but I donít see it being a problem for Vanderbilt and Stanford and Georgia tech. So to generally summarize and put it bluntly, until wake can recruit at that level, they wonít be competitive at making runs to Omaha and even ncaa tournament appearances. Making wake forest an attraction on par with those schools MUST START WITH THE MAN AT THE HELM. look at Alabama football, nick saban turned the program around. Those kids are going there because heís established a culture of excellence IN ADDITION TO THE FACILITIES. Wake is a great opportunity for a young coach to bring it up to par with the best of the best. Walter gives reasons why that canít happen. Find someone that tells you how heís going to make it happen.

  19. #759
    Tom Walter is a pessimist / glass half empty guy. That manifests in an aura of lack of confidence in his players who as a result, play without confidence. Someone who hasnít played there like an AD will never understand that. Dude talks and acts like something is always wrong. Like I said, going to practice was like a fucking funeral.

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL68 View Post
    with the facilitie and ability to recruit here you should be able to win
    All starts with the asshole running the program. Negative mother fucker

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