Wake/BC Game Thread

[Neurodeac]

Also, why do we insist on not fouling down by 3?

Bz said he thought about it but didn't trust our ability to rebound the missed free throw. Probably a realistic assessment of our weaknesses.

 

[Deacsfan27]

[Redacted] explained this in the last postgame. He considered fouling but we give up a lot of rebounds on free throws so he thought the odds were better if we play defense.

Hard to criticize considering we're 2-0 in that situation and neither team even got a shot off. Well, unless you count Travis's travel and the subsequent shot - but at that point you couldn't foul because there wasn't enough time - shot was going up at the catch.

Bz said he thought about it but didn't trust our ability to rebound the missed free throw. Probably a realistic assessment of our weaknesses.

Fair enough. I hadn't heard those explanations. They do make sense.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I would rather pull for a team that plays up to its potential, regardless of what the record might be. And while I seem to be in a minority on the board in this respect, I would also rather pull for a team of student athletes, rather than a bunch of NBA wannabes making a short stopover until they become eligible to leave for a full-time professional job. If I wanted to pull for a professional team, I would be watching the NBA.

There are things in life that are more important to me than winning a basketball game.

You should just go camp out in Reynolda gym then, lots of student athletes there, the Joel may not be for you.

 

[TexasDeac10]

Dino was a terrible offensive coach, but his teams played very good defense and rebounded much better than bzdeliks teams.

Agree about his defense to an extent, but there was some good discussion back in the day about how his Pack Line defense was actually ill-suited to our athletic talents. With rebounding, it also helps that Dino's teams had some phenomenal college rebounders (Aminu, Woods, McFarland).

I'll just never forget being told that our 2008/09 team tried to "install" a proper offense midseason after we lost to Georgia Tech and the coaching staff panicked.

 

[deac_tracy]

Agree about his defense to an extent, but there was some good discussion back in the day about how his Pack Line defense was actually ill-suited to our athletic talents. With rebounding, it also helps that Dino's teams had some phenomenal college rebounders (Aminu, Woods, McFarland).

I'll just never forget being told that our 2008/09 team tried to "install" a proper offense midseason after we lost to Georgia Tech and the coaching staff panicked.

lol at Mcfarland and Woods being "phenomenal" rebounders. Chas was just better than average and the starting freshman shooting guard has been putting up better rebounding numbers at Oregon than Woods.

 

[TBR]

If any of you guys was at the game tonight you would have seen a "team". Like I have said plenty of times, WTF, yes I've complained about Buzz myself, but we're playing so much better now. We're playing better "team ball" than we ever played under Dino, we're also starting to battle on the boards. Fuck it, if Wake is playing better in all areas and playing better team ball; than why hate and act like you don't want to watch the Deacs.. Screw it, go pull for another team b/c your a fair weather fan anyway...

Don't fucking call me a fair weather fan. Sadly I am unable to make games now since graduating (this, btw, is part of the reason I have trouble connecting with the team itself), but I missed a combined two home games during [Redacted]'s first two years. I am not a fair weather fan. I am a realist. BC is bad. Virginia is bad. Our offense is worse than I expected, our defense is better. Real talk here, over half of our points come from players [Redacted] inherited. How are we going to replace CJ's production? And then Travis's? We have to replace two of the better scorers in WFU history in order to maintain the status quo, which isn't very good btw.

Being better than we were last year just means that we're headed in the right direction, it doesn't mean that we'll get there.

 

[Strickland33]

Don't fucking call me a fair weather fan. Sadly I am unable to make games now since graduating (this, btw, is part of the reason I have trouble connecting with the team itself), but I missed a combined two home games during [Redacted]'s first two years. I am not a fair weather fan. I am a realist. BC is bad. Virginia is bad. Our offense is worse than I expected, our defense is better. Real talk here, over half of our points come from players we inherited. How are we going to replace CJ's production? And then Travis's? We have to replace two of the better scorers in WFU history in order to maintain the status quo, which isn't very good btw.

Being better than we were last year just means that we're headed in the right direction, it doesn't mean that we'll get there.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TBR again.

Great post. Somebody please rep the man, on my behalf?

 

[TexasDeac10]

lol at Mcfarland and Woods being "phenomenal" rebounders. Chas was just better than average and the starting freshman shooting guard has been putting up better rebounding numbers at Oregon than Woods.

McFarland was a great rebounder. Great hands, good length.

I vividly remember a game against Baylor in 2008 where we'd board like 4-5 of our misses around the back in a single play. Baylor's Quincy Acy (now in the NBA) had zero chance.

We were spoiled back then. I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Strickland33]

I'd just like to point out that at the end of the game it took both Rusty and Randolph to remind Coach to take out Chase and sub in Rountree after the offensive foul by Travis.

He came in very late and then obviously made the steal that won the game.

QFT. Lots of revisionist history going down even within 24 hours of the game...

 

[Strickland33]

it is not Bzz apologists gaining confidence - it is the reality that this team is improving. BC is an improved team - they could have beaten State and beat a VT team on the road that beat Ga Tech on the road yesterday. Bz got a rash of shit during the disasterous losses and he deserves credit for the teams improvement since the Nebraska game. wanting Wake to lose with the hopes of the coach getting fired is amazingly ludacris but typical of a subset of Wake fans.

regarding Dino - i remember Cleveland State - NBC Today show special reports about alleged sexual assaults, suspensions for various reasons, lack of team chemistry, and a otherwise complete lack of control of his program. Anyone who disputes this truly has no idea what was really going on behind the scenes.

Do you have an idea of what was really going on behind the scenes? I've been lectured a lot by the AD establishment about "behind the scenes," but have yet to hear anything beyond rehashing the players who got in trouble after [Redacted] got here. You'll also remember that Gary Clark wasn't guilty and that most Wake coaches have had their own version of the Cleveland State massacre. The next year, Dino took us to the second round. In [Redacted] expectations, that's a lifetime contract.

Finally, you do remember that the Nebraska and Iona games happened very recently - like, you know, this year. So, perhaps, to give your brand of "fair and balanced" analysis that the rest of this board is incapable of providing, you might want to wait until we beat a team that's got a legitimate shot of playing in the NCAA Tournament. Just a thought.

 

[Maztal]

http://eagleoutsider.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13118

BC fans aren't very happy.

 

[TBR]

If CJ maintains his 15.7 ppg average for the rest of the season, he will have a total of 1622 points during his Wake Forest career, good for #17 on the Wake all time scorer's list. If Travis maintains his 15.2 ppg average for the rest of the season and for next season, he will have a total of 1857 points during his Wake Forest career, good for #11 on the Wake all time scorer's list (he'll displace Josh Howard, and two more points will get him past Songalia as well and into the top ten).

 

[Strickland33]

Personal insults add little of value to any discussion. I will say that coaching definitely makes a difference. If you don't believe it, find a video of the 1984 Eastern Regional game between Carolina & Indiana and watch it. Carolina was #1 in the nation and had 4 NBA first round draft picks...Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins, Brad Daugherty & Kenny Smith....and got beat by four guys you've never heard of.....Mike Giomi, Marty Simmons, Dan Dakich & Uwe Blab.

Some coaches can take their players and beat your players....or they can take your players and beat their players.

I've heard of those guys (I sometimes listen to Dakich on the radio) and they were all highly regarded recruits (especially Dakich). This is why these type of points never stick; they're just not true. It's a blanket generalization because folks didn't like Teague and JJohnson and still had the bad taste of high ranked burnouts Loren Woods, Ty Walker, Tony Woods, JT Terrell, etc. in their mouths.

It's funny that, for one second, nobody thinks that it might be good coaches that get talented guys to background their career aspirations for a team-first foreground. It's not only that good coaches can get underrated talent to play well, but it's also that good coaches get good talent to play like a team.

Even the much admired Brad Stevens lost his top player - Gordon Hayward - early to the NBA Draft lottery. Shaka lost Larry Sanders early to the lottery after a CBI finish.

You don't hear Butler and VCU fans with the same borderline-Luddite beef against "NBA caliber players." In fact, they welcome them and win regardless.

We've had decent-to-bad coaches; that doesn't make Buzz a good one.

 

[Buttermaker]

I'd just like to point out that at the end of the game it took both Rusty and Randolph to remind Coach to take out Chase and sub in Rountree after the offensive foul by Travis.

He came in very late and then obviously made the steal that won the game.

Also, why do we insist on not fouling down by 3?[/QUOTE]

I recall losing to NC State fouling up three - made first FT, missed second, and State scored of the rebound. Lost in OT I think. Either Staak or early Odom years.

 

[BabyDeac75]

it is not Bzz apologists gaining confidence - it is the reality that this team is improving. BC is an improved team - they could have beaten State and beat a VT team on the road that beat Ga Tech on the road yesterday. Bz got a rash of shit during the disasterous losses and he deserves credit for the teams improvement since the Nebraska game. wanting Wake to lose with the hopes of the coach getting fired is amazingly ludacris but typical of a subset of Wake fans.

regarding Dino - i remember Cleveland State - NBC Today show special reports about alleged sexual assaults, suspensions for various reasons, lack of team chemistry, and a otherwise complete lack of control of his program. Anyone who disputes this truly has no idea what was really going on behind the scenes.

On of my personal policies concerning what I post on the boards includes not getting into squabbles with fellow Deacon fans. I will assume you are one, and not a shill for the AD. Therefore, I hope that you do not take my following comments personally, for they are truly not directed at you individually. However, your second paragraph moves me to respond, not because I am attempting to change your mind, but because I fear someone might actually believe those statements are even remotely credible.

Therefore, I do dispute your claim. I do "truly have some idea of what was really going on behind the scenes" ... and you are dead wrong. I have no idea what drove you to post the second paragraph (whether it was ignorance or an agenda), but having shared my response will now retire to the NFL playoffs and I wish you a good afternoon.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I don't see why we need to re-hash Dino's tenure for the millionth time to honestly evaluate [Redacted]. In the micro sense, this team is playing together and very hard, and they're winning ACC games; That's worth celebrating. In the macro sense, this is [Redacted]'s 3rd season and for the 3rd year in a row we aren't going to have a winning season. A coach is responsible for his own roster turnover. We need a better coach.

 

[BabyDeac75]

I'd just like to point out that at the end of the game it took both Rusty and Randolph to remind Coach to take out Chase and sub in Rountree after the offensive foul by Travis.

He came in very late and then obviously made the steal that won the game.

Also, why do we insist on not fouling down by 3?[/QUOTE]

I recall losing to NC State fouling up three - made first FT, missed second, and State scored of the rebound. Lost in OT I think. Either Staak or early Odom years.

Good memory. It was Staak's last regular season game (March 4, 1989) vs NCSU in Gboro. State was ranked 20th and we lost 110-103 in 4ots. We were up by 3 and fouled to send them to the line for 2. They made the first, Valvano instructed them to miss intentionally, they got the O-board and stick back to stay alive before eventually winning the game.

 

[TBR]

Both will likely finish in the top 20 on Wake's all time points list.

 

[kennylogginsfan]

I'd just like to point out that at the end of the game it took both Rusty and Randolph to remind Coach to take out Chase and sub in Rountree after the offensive foul by Travis.

He came in very late and then obviously made the steal that won the game.

Also, why do we insist on not fouling down by 3?[/QUOTE]

I recall losing to NC State fouling up three - made first FT, missed second, and State scored of the rebound. Lost in OT I think. Either Staak or early Odom years.

I remember that as well. Didn't Rodney Monroe follow up the missed free throw to send it to OT?

 

[Deacsfan27]

PPG should really be the biggest determinate of school's list of all-time best scorers.