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Why was Dino fired?

bobknightfan said:
I'm having a lot of fun, though. Sure beats listening to people bitch about [Redacted]....right after a 25-point conference win.

(And I don't really see your point here, either. Bob Knight definitely beat many teams that had better talent than he had in his career. I'm not saying that he didn't have talent....a lot of it, in the middle of his run at IU....but he didn't have many players who became top NBA players. The reason, in my opinion, was because Coach Knight's style emphasized "team" and not "me"....which is why his teams were so successful for so long. There is no doubt that in the last several years the game has changed (for the worse, in my opinion) as you began to have more and more prima donnas who had been told how great they were since the 8th grade that they became virtually uncoachable. And this is why college basketball has become the shit-show that it is today, where form has triumphed over fundamentals and you can't keep a group of players together long enough to learn how to play together as a team.....and the game has become a circus-like SportsCenter dunking highlight film that is really not even worth watching. (And fewer & fewer people ARE watching. Look at the empty seats...and i'm not just talking about Wake Forest. They were many empty seats at the Smith Center the other night, too.)
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Thanks for responding, bkf. I'll try to be brief and tackle a few assumptions:

1. You're conflating a ton of variables in "talent." There are plenty of NBA players who are team-oriented, lunch-pail types. In fact, I think more aren't prima donnas than are. Furthermore, lots of top-100 players never play in the NBA. Even furthermore, lots of great college players and great basketball players in general never play in the NBA. Even further down the ole' furthermore, there are plenty of untalented players in the NBA. So, what to you is talent? What were the fundamental differences between that Indiana team and that Carolina team from a talent-perspective?

2. So, we agree that Knight had elite talent at Indiana and was known for being a skilled recruiter. What "game" changed, exactly? Please elaborate.

There were headcases then and there are headcases now. There were Ari Stewart types in the 1970s; there were JT Terrell types in the 1970s; and, there were CJ Harris types in the 1970s. Furthermore, looking at Indiana's current roster (as well as almost any roster in NCAA basketball), there are more good eggs than bad eggs, more team first guys than stats-first cancers.

3. Were there no highlights prior to the "circus-like SportsCenter dunking highlight film that is really not even worth watching" (as you claim)? My college sports highlights compilations on VHS disagree with you. As does briefly looking at Youtube "likes" and cross-posting statistics.
 
bobknightfan said:
You don't know what you are talking about. I was supporting blacks down here in rural NC when it wasn't "cool", to steal a term from Barbara Mandrell. Voted for Dr Reginald Hawkins in the 1968 Democratic Gubernatorial Primary with my very first vote ever.....the only vote he got in my precinct that day. Don't know who Reginald Hawkins is? Read this:

http://www.northcarolinahistory.org/encyclopedia/300/entry/
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I had no idea that being white and voting for a black guy meant you couldn't be racist. Awesome news. :woot: I have black friends, so I can't be racist either...

Real talk: I've noticed many of your posts over the years have some below the surface racism...and it doesn't appear I'm the only one. Not throwing stones here. Hell, I'm sure I have some racist tendencies and I have a son who's half-black. In most cases, I had no idea until I was called out on it.
 
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By golly Bob, I wish you had a team of Tyler Hansbrough's coached by drill sergeants (pro bono, I might add) to root for, but you're stuck with MSD.
 
To answer the original question because he was not a great coach and his teams were having off court issues. If your team is going to have off court issues at WFU you must be a great coach.
 
bobknightfan said:
I don't agree that Coach Knight had "elite" talent most of the time at IU. He had some good talent most of the time, but seldom did he have what were considered the "elite" players. I also do not agree with the statement that Coach Knight was a "skilled" recruiter. The players who came to play for him did so because they knew that they would be put thru hell...but that he would make them the best player that they could possibly be (as well as the best person they could possibly be) if they listened....and completed the program. They also knew that the program would be squeaky clean regarding the rules, that they would be required to go to class...and graduate. Some found that they were unable to do that and transferred out of the IU program....but the ones who did would testify today that it was worth everything they had to endure. Where the game changed was basically when society changed, and those young players became more spoiled & pampered and got it in their heads by the time that they got to college that they knew more than the coach did.

SportsCenter is probably one of the worst things that ever happened to college basketball. And we have reached the point today where there really is no such thing as "college basketball" in many cases. Teams with 1- & 2-year players aren't really college teams. They are professional prep teams....much like AA & AAA teams in baseball.

The 1984 UNC team had much, much, much more natural talent & ability than Coach Knight's 1984 IU team. It's shocking that you would even be contesting that fact. The difference in that game was, plainly, Bob Knight. No other coach in the nation could have taken the players he had and defeated the players that Carolina had in that game. It stands as probably the greatest testament of his coaching ability in his entire long & illustrious career.
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Carolina was a very good team that year, but they weren't as good after Kenny Smith was hurt during the regular season. To say that no other coach could have won with Indiana's talent that game is just another example of your riciculous over the top Bobby Knight hero worship.

In that same regional that same year, Virginia was lesser talented than Indiana, and beat #2 seed Arkansas, #3 seed Syracuse, and #4 seed Indiana and won the regional.
 
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Virginia had already upset two teams in that same tournament and had played an extra game. And then they beat an Indiana team that was better than them and had upset #3.

Virginia was a rag-tag team. Indiana was not.
 
The athletic dept has not been transparent in their answer. But Dino averaged 20.5 wins over 3 years, which beats losing 20+ games a year as we do now. Dino's teams beat at least one ranked team per year and should have had post season play (NIT) his first year. We don't have to worry about an NCAA tournament melt-down now. There was no clear reason for releasing him and even worse reason for hiring Bz after a one coach national head coach search. All those who wanted Dino fired got what they deserved in Bz.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Virginia had already upset two teams in that same tournament and had played an extra game. And then they beat an Indiana team that was better than them and had upset #3.

Virginia was a rag-tag team. Indiana was not.
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I wouldn't call that UVA team entirely rag tag. Their starting backcourt had played in the Final Four the year before.
 
Shorty said:
I wouldn't call that UVA team entirely rag tag. Their starting backcourt had played in the Final Four the year before.
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No they didn't. Virginia made one Final Four with Sampson in 1981. They lost to NCSU in the Elite Eight in 1983.
 
I love that any time BKF gets involved in a basketball thread the topic inevitably rolls around to 1 and dines and the demise of college basketball. It it is like clockwork.
 
IU regularly had elite talent under Knight. Zeke, Damon Bailey, Paterson, Alan Henderson, Cheney, Recker, Guyton, and many, many more. All of these guys (or most) would be five star recruits.
 
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Yeah, saying Knight didn't have talent while at IU is just absurd on the face.
 
You're insane if you think I give enough of a shit about basketball 30-40 years ago to argue about it.
 
1. Dino was a bit of an ego maniac. He didn't necessarily tow the line with the AD hierarchy.
2. Dino played favorites with his players and let some get away with things Wellman frowned upon. A basic example is repeated parking tickets for the likes of James Johnson. James did as he pleased and Dino didn't reprimand him.
3. Dino was bringing in some academically weak players and was perhaps wearing out his welcome with admissions. To be clear, we are still bringing in some weak students but somehow Wellman is OK with that under this regime.
4. Dunno
5. Dunno
6. Some shit I don't know or at least that Wellman hasn't spilled...

If you look at Bzzz as the anti-Dino in terms of his dealings within the AD, the hire makes sense. My take is Wellman wanted a basketball coach that he could control and fit into HIS definition of culture. There is no way he gets a deserving hire to fall into that trap and thus you go get a guy that no one wants and make him your bitch.
 
Wellman fired Dino after only 3 seasons but will give Bz another year unless his hand is forced. It is up to the players now.
 
Whenever I see a post by BKF, I instinctively start humming the song "Reminiscing".
 
This is such a tired argument on this board. It's really easy to say you miss Dino when you have a coach like [Redacted]. It's true as they say, people really do have short memories. I question anyone's understanding of the game of basketball if they truly believe Dino was a "good" coach. He was a poor coach with massive amounts of talent.

Dino would be doing just as poor with this bunch as [Redacted] is currently doing, possibly even worse. That in no way excuses Wellman for hiring [Redacted] but the program was on shaky ground under Dino. Everyone seems to conveniently forget the rape allegations from our basketball team a few years ago. Not saying that it did happen but Dino never had firm control of that team. Johnson and Teague hated each other, Ish was constantly out of control, turning the ball over on a regular basis. Look at what an NBA-level coach has been able to do with Teague and Ish. Ish has become a solid player and Teague is on the verge of being an All Star one day. Johnson has made strides as well.

We need a new coach but we sure as fuck don't need Dino back. Christ people, get it together.
 
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