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City, Falcons reach deal to build new stadium in downtown ATL (PANTHEON pics update!)

Yeah but I don't want a replica of the Beijing stadium either.

I like the idea of glass walls so you can see the skyline. Obviously this thing should be built like Seattle's stadium for MAX level sound.
 
TheTwinAndreBen, you may be right about Blank and his legacy. And if so, maybe the Solarium doesn't fit the bill for him. But I also have a feeling he doesn't want the Pantheon to be his legacy either. There's a fine line between WOW and ROTFL. And the Pantheon could easily cross that line in the final design. And, as someone else said, I don't see that thing aging well. And shouldn't a legacy age with grace?
 
w84it said:
Actually there are plenty of papers that show the supposed economic boost from one-off events like the Final Four, the Super Bowl, and even your average bowl games are mostly inflated figures that aren't accurate.

First you have to consider that these numbers don't take into account the fact that there are people who would normally visit a city like Atlanta as tourists who instead avoid it during a big event weekend. Bowl games and the like are obviously designed for tourists and to boost the tourist industries in their respective cities, but for the most part they take place in cities that already have a strong draw as a tourist destination - Atlanta certainly qualifies in this regard. You also have to consider that there are a lot of local residents who are typically going to scale back their spending during those periods in order to avoid crowds of tourists - this certainly affects the food industry, but people also tend to avoid the roads and don't drive to the store and spend their money in non-entertainment ways as well because of the crowds.

Then you have to consider the simple cost that putting on such large events has on local economies, since you're going to have to have more employees to cover the larger crowds, more law enforcement, and a greater strain on the general infrastructure as a whole. Quite often these costs aren't included at all when forecasting the economic impact of events, but they're very real.

And even if you're just talking about the additional money that is going to be made by the area hotels, consider how many of those hotels are chains and whether that money is actually going to go back into the economy - I doubt it matters to Hyatt whether the event is in Atlanta or Orlando, because they're going to make a killing either way. The people who are actually going to be working during these events are still going to be working the same number of hours so that the companies don't have to pay them overtime, and the increase money that actually comes into the system is going right back out to a corporation with a nice tax shelter offshore.

If there is any actual increase in economic impact of hosting big events, its minimal at best and isn't anywhere close to the numbers that are constantly floated in the media.
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Vast majority of hotels are not owned by the chain. They're either franchised or managed by the chain, but normally someone else owns the property and would receive the bulk of the profits.
 
TBR said:
Vast majority of hotels are not owned by the chain. They're either franchised or managed by the chain, but normally someone else owns the property and would receive the bulk of the profits.
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So its winding up in the hands of somebody who operates four or five hotels instead of a hundred - what's your point? That money isn't going back into the local economy, that money is sitting in somebody's bank account or going into their investment portfolio, not back into the local economy.
 
w84it said:
This says more about this country than anything else written on this thread - Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, and Carnegie founded universities, museums, and the arts. Blank and Marcus want to build sports stadiums that will be torn down in 20 years.
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Blank has also joined some billionaire group (forget the name) that promises to give away most if not all of their wealth before they die.
 
^^^And again you missed my point about all the little people from the valets and the cabbies and the waiters. A hotel isnt just a tower of beds. Maybe things work different where you're from, but I doubt it.
 
w84it said:
So its winding up in the hands of somebody who operates four or five hotels instead of a hundred - what's your point? That money isn't going back into the local economy, that money is sitting in somebody's bank account or going into their investment portfolio, not back into the local economy.
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But the owner could save the profits and uses them to open another hotel, restaurant, etc. and generate more jobs. Exactly what Dave Marvin and Legacy Property group have done
 
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Go said:
Yeah but I don't want a replica of the Beijing stadium either.

I like the idea of glass walls so you can see the skyline. Obviously this thing should be built like Seattle's stadium for MAX level sound.
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Ohh so their breaded chicken is okay but not their stadium designs? I see how it is.
 
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w84it said:
So its winding up in the hands of somebody who operates four or five hotels instead of a hundred - what's your point? That money isn't going back into the local economy, that money is sitting in somebody's bank account or going into their investment portfolio, not back into the local economy.
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Or, more likely, based on what this person did in the past, they'll open more hotels. Or maybe some other business that employees regular people. Rich people don't get richer sitting on their money. And they rarely invest it in a way that doesn't benefit the 'regular guy' somewhere down the line. For example, Blank and Marcus got rich building a company that employees over 300,000 people. And they've spent a lot of that money in Atlanta in ways that benefit countless other people.
 
Good discussion. Here's a Planet Money podcast on this issue focus on Indianapolis' experience hosting the Super Bowl last year (19 min). Definitely worth a listen.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012...ay-podcast-is-hosting-the-super-bowl-worth-it

The biggest takeaway from this and other work is how these big events hurt small businesses.

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In today's podcast, co-hosted from Indianapolis by NPR's Mike Pesca, Matheson presents the case against hosting the Super Bowl.
He argues hosting the Super Bowl pushes out the economic activities that occur on normal, non-Super Bowl hosting weekends. No conventions are held. Museums are closed. Local residents do not come downtown simply because it's too crowded.
What's more, Matheson says, the majority of the money that's shelled out by out-of-towners does not even stay in the city. It flows to the big, national hotel companies and restaurant chains.
"More money than average is being spent in hotels and restaurants, but is then immediately leaving town...you have lots of dollars changing hands but it's really money being sucked out of people's hands and disappearing, rather than money that goes to build the local economy or repay a big stadium subsidy."
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ATLDeac86 said:
Or, more likely, based on what this person did in the past, they'll open more hotels. Or maybe some other business that employees regular people. Rich people don't get richer sitting on their money. And they rarely invest it in a way that doesn't benefit the 'regular guy' somewhere down the line. For example, Blank and Marcus got rich building a company that employees over 300,000 people. And they've spent a lot of that money in Atlanta in ways that benefit countless other people.
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Right, trickle-down economics, I forgot that when the rich get richer and the common man gets pissed on we should call that "progress"
 
w84it said:
Right, trickle-down economics, I forgot that when the rich get richer and the common man gets pissed on we should call that "progress"
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So the 300,000 people that work for Home Depot are being 'pissed on'?
 
ATLDeac86 said:
So the 300,000 people that work for Home Depot are being 'pissed on'?
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No, working for minimum wage and getting fired if you clock more than 40 hours a week is the embodiment of the American dream - we would all be so lucky.
 
jaybone said:
I would NOT want to be standing outside the Solarium when the roof opens. That thing looks ready for shattered chunks of 2 ton glass.
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Plexi doesn't shatter like glass.
 
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PhDeac said:
Good discussion. Here's a Planet Money podcast on this issue focus on Indianapolis' experience hosting the Super Bowl last year (19 min). Definitely worth a listen.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012...ay-podcast-is-hosting-the-super-bowl-worth-it

The biggest takeaway from this and other work is how these big events hurt small businesses.

-----
In today's podcast, co-hosted from Indianapolis by NPR's Mike Pesca, Matheson presents the case against hosting the Super Bowl.
He argues hosting the Super Bowl pushes out the economic activities that occur on normal, non-Super Bowl hosting weekends. No conventions are held. Museums are closed. Local residents do not come downtown simply because it's too crowded. What's more, Matheson says, the majority of the money that's shelled out by out-of-towners does not even stay in the city. It flows to the big, national hotel companies and restaurant chains.
"More money than average is being spent in hotels and restaurants, but is then immediately leaving town...you have lots of dollars changing hands but it's really money being sucked out of people's hands and disappearing, rather than money that goes to build the local economy or repay a big stadium subsidy."
-----
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First of all Indianapolis is a two horse town. There arent diverse and far apart neigborhoods with resto and bars etc. They have downtown and that is it. If downtown is superbowled out, then you have to eat your midwestern mayo sammich and drink your coors lite at home. Atlanta is not that way. No one hangs out downtown anyway. Further, Downtown Atlanta has been built to host these big events, its geared for it. The museums and malls all do twice the business. THey certainly dont close down.

THere are 12000 hotel room within walking of the dome. Probably another few thousand within 2-3 miles. Indianapolis has 5000. They cant handle these events; they are just too small.

Finally, and most importantly, that greasy huckster that owns the Colts tricked the city into paying for almost ALL of that stadium. Over 80% public financing I believe. The ATL project is exactly the opposite. Less than 20% public financing, and its all hotel room tax allocation, so really none coming from locals. The Falcons made an $800MM investment to get this done and Indy made $200MM or less.
 
There's a school of thought that says NFL teams are extremely focused on improving the in-game experience, because why deal with parking, overpriced food & beverages, and drunk idiots when you can stay at home and watch the game (and every other one) on your 80" flat screen? So all these new stadiums (like JerryWorld in North TX) are trying to enhance the in-game experience. If you can't put in cool stuff in your old stadium, why not build a new one?

That said, I've never been to the GA Dome, but it seems weird that it would be that outdated after 20+ years. I'm in Chicago and I ride by a hundred year old stadium every day. (Which is also the subject of a huge political fight right now.)
 
SmooveDeac said:
There's a school of thought that says NFL teams are extremely focused on improving the in-game experience, because why deal with parking, overpriced food & beverages, and drunk idiots when you can stay at home and watch the game (and every other one) on your 80" flat screen? So all these new stadiums (like JerryWorld in North TX) are trying to enhance the in-game experience. If you can't put in cool stuff in your old stadium, why not build a new one?

That said, I've never been to the GA Dome, but it seems weird that it would be that outdated after 20+ years. I'm in Chicago and I ride by a hundred year old stadium every day. (Which is also the subject of a huge political fight right now.)
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Right. Because the owner says he needs to put up a new scoreboard to help pay for the renovations of Wrigley Field. Of course all the owners of the building beyond the outfield are trying to block it because it might block their view.

This is largely keeping and attracting big ticket events. Miami just go bounced from consideration for Super Bowl L because their stadium renovation financing referendum just failed. Atlanta will host the national championship game for college football within 3-5 years of the stadium opening. The Chick Fil A bowl will be hosting a national semifinal game every 3 years. You get/keep those events when you have a new/renovated stadium.

From a local fan's perspective, I live in Atlanta and avoid the Georgia Dome at all costs unless I have GREAT seats. There is very limit space for tailgating. Most of the seats are too far away from the field. Football was invented to be played outdoors. In the Georgia Dome it feels like you are watching a TV show or something. The ability to have an open-air stadium, presumably create better tailgating, etc. is well worth it for the local fan, especially when the City's contribution is coming from hotel taxes.
 
Been a Falcon's season ticket holder for 10 years and have never thought the parking areas didn't have enough space for tailgating. We tailgate in the Gulch on the side near Five Points station. It's real convenient for my friends who take MARTA to games.

However, the city wants to build the multimodal station where the gulch is now so the parking situation will likely change. We'll see though.
 
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