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Found Anything Yet, RJ...Shoo?

TWDeac said:
First leap of faith, huh? I'd say we have a pretty damn good idea of how life began. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller–Urey_experiment

What faith does the vastness and complexity of the universe demand? Please explain what you are trying to say here, and for christsakes, give some examples.
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"The Miller and Urey experiment[1] (or Urey–Miller experiment)[2] was an experiment that simulated hypothetical conditions thought at the time to be present on the early Earth"

But, where did the "early Earth" come from? And, what came before that...and that...and that.

I think Wrangor's point is that there is a large amount unknown about creation. Thus, requiring some semblance of faith in a universe borne out by no creator.
 
Les Grossman said:
"The Miller and Urey experiment[1] (or Urey–Miller experiment)[2] was an experiment that simulated hypothetical conditions thought at the time to be present on the early Earth"

But, where did the "early Earth" come from? And, what came before that...and that...and that.

I think Wrangor's point is that there is a large amount unknown about creation. Thus, requiring some semblance of faith in a universe borne out by no creator.
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Planetary formation is not an unknown theory. I could quite easily detail the various stages in the life of Earth from the moment it first coalesced, until now.

The same with the formation of our solar system and galaxy and universe as a whole.

Give me one of these so called "unknowns" so I can refute it properly.
 
TWDeac said:
Planetary formation is not an unknown theory. I could quite easily detail the various stages in the life of Earth from the moment it first coalesced, until now.

The same with the formation of our solar system and galaxy and universe as a whole.

Give me one of these so called "unknowns" so I can refute it properly.
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How did the universe begin?
 
Les Grossman said:
How did the universe begin?
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All of our observational evidence points to the universe beginning as a rapid expansion of matter out of a singularity. Before you ask what happened before the big bang, you might as well ask what is north of north. It is a nonsensical question.
 
TWDeac said:
All of our observational evidence points to the universe beginning as a rapid expansion of matter out of a singularity. Before you ask what happened before the big bang, you might as well ask what is north of north. It is a nonsensical question.
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Sheldon's roommate moved out before The Big Bang Theory started.
 
TWDeac said:
All of our observational evidence points to the universe beginning as a rapid expansion of matter out of a singularity. Before you ask what happened before the big bang, you might as well ask what is north of north. It is a nonsensical question.
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I was just watching something on Nova last week where a bunch of scientists said they no longer believe in the Big Bang. They were throwing around a bunch of different theories. One was about two universes colliding, and out came our universe. Another one was about us coming from a different dimension or something. I dont really remember it all as it was all above my head. The basic jist I got out of the program, though, was that there was no real consensus and we really dont know.
 
Les Grossman said:
I was just watching something on Nova last week where a bunch of scientists said they no longer believe in the Big Bang. They were throwing around a bunch of different theories. One was about two universes colliding, and out came our universe. Another one was about us coming from a different dimension or something. I dont really remember it all as it was all above my head. The basic jist I got out of the program, though, was that there was no real consensus and we really dont know.
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The problem with these type of shows is that you don't get a good sample size of opinions. There are multiple explanations for the start of the big bang theory, but they are inherently untestable. Far and away the most accepted theory is the big bang.

I love reading about these different ideas( brane on brane collision, endless big crunch cycle, multiverse, etc..) but they just aren't testable right now (or possibly ever)
 
TWDeac said:
All of our observational evidence points to the universe beginning as a rapid expansion of matter out of a singularity. Before you ask what happened before the big bang, you might as well ask what is north of north. It is a nonsensical question.
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Also, why is it a nonsensical question? To me, it makes sense given how we view time in a linear fashion. I'm assuming your response will be that's the beginning of time, thus there can be nothing before it? I guess I can live with that.
 
Wrangor said:
Religion 101 for DinDC:

Christian: Jesus is God Incarnate, fully God, fully man
Jew: Jesus was not God at all, simply man
Muslim: Jesus is a prophet (again, not God, simply man)

Therefore right there you have a huge difference between the three religions on the nature of God. There is an irreconcilable difference between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Judaism claims that God is One, therefore the mere idea of a Triune God (in which Jesus is 1 part of the Godhead) is impossible. In addition, Muslims believe that the Q'uran (spelling mistake I am sure) is the Word of God, and not the Bible. Therefore while they might call their Gods the same, there is a HUGE difference in these two books.

Christianity culminates in the birth, life, death, and ressurection of Jesus Christ, son of God. Any failure to recognize that is a failure to be cohesive with the God of Christianity. I am not sure why this is that difficult to understand. Just because someone says they believe in the same God you do, doesn't mean they actually do. If you believe that Jesus was a giant hamburger in the sky, that doesn't doesn't make you a Christian. It makes you a guy who believes that Jesus was a giant hamburger in the sky.
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Obviously there are differences in the various "holy books" -- you left out the Torah and the Vulgate as well as other variations on the Christian Bible. However, there is absolutely no disagreement among mainstream theologians and religious officials that "Islam, like Christianity and Judaism, worships the God of Abraham". The God of Islam, the God of Abraham, and the God of Christianity are the same monotheistic tradition/belief that has been interpreted differently by different cultures at different times in history.

http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/faithgod.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran
 
Les Grossman said:
Also, why is it a nonsensical question? To me, it makes sense given how we view time in a linear fashion. I'm assuming your response will be that's the beginning of time, thus there can be nothing before it? I guess I can live with that.
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Spacetime began with the big bang. Before then, there was no time and no space.
 
Most scientists believe there are a multitude of other universes. Space and time for this universe likely started with the big bang, but not all space or time.
 
Its ironic that a Sarah Palin thread suddenly morphs into a discussion of the Big Bang. Because I'd like to bang that. Big time.
 
I didn't start that morph...could you think of things less linked than science and Sarah Palin.
 
RJKarl said:
Most scientists believe there are a multitude of other universes. Space and time for this universe likely started with the big bang, but not all space or time.
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Most scientists? String theorists, definitely. I wouldn't say those are most scientists, though.

Our space and time started during our big bang, and that is all that matters in this discussion. We don't (and most likely will never) have access to alternate universes.
 
RJKarl said:
I didn't start that morph...could you think of things less linked than science and Sarah Palin.
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But Sarah Palin is the perfectly hot woman. Apparently all the cells in her body have perfectly alligned to form an amazingly hot woman. Thats scientific.
 
BoogityBoogity said:
But Sarah Palin is the perfectly hot woman. Apparently all the cells in her body have perfectly alligned to form an amazingly hot woman. Thats scientific.
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Careful, she might want to ream you a new one with that strap-on that she uses every night on Todd.
 
TWDeac said:
Spacetime began with the big bang. Before then, there was no time and no space.
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Still doesn't mean it is a nonsensical question.

But it is the unanswerable question. Meaning of life stuff.

And isn't is possible that there was some space and time before that, but that we have no way of knowing what either was based on the evidence that the current universe provides us?
 
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ChrisL68 said:
Still doesn't mean it is a nonsensical question.

But it is the unanswerable question. Meaning of life stuff.

And isn't is possible that there was some space and time before that, but that we have no way of knowing what either was based on the evidence that the current universe provides us?
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Our space and time began when the big bang occurred. The answer really depends on your definition of a multiverse. If there our universes is beyond our cosmological horizon(infinite.) The universe would be in standard space.

There are other interpretations which would not allow for the existence of space time before the big bang. The universes would basically exist in a sea of quantum foam. Each popping into and out of existence.
 
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