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Found Anything Yet, RJ...Shoo?

Les Grossman said:
"The Miller and Urey experiment[1] (or Urey–Miller experiment)[2] was an experiment that simulated hypothetical conditions thought at the time to be present on the early Earth"

But, where did the "early Earth" come from? And, what came before that...and that...and that.

I think Wrangor's point is that there is a large amount unknown about creation. Thus, requiring some semblance of faith in a universe borne out by no creator.
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Look at the words in bold "simulated" "hypothetical" "thought" Science does require faith. Not necessarily faith in God or in a higher power, but faith that we can simulate how life was born, faith that we can hypothesize what those conditions were like, faith that what we think is correct. Because we can't completely know.
 
LilburnDeac said:
Look at the words in bold "simulated" "hypothetical" "thought" Science does require faith. Not necessarily faith in God or in a higher power, but faith that we can simulate how life was born, faith that we can hypothesize what those conditions were like, faith that what we think is correct. Because we can't completely know.
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Observational evidence equates to faith, huh?
 
TWDeac said:
Our space and time began when the big bang occurred. The answer really depends on your definition of a multiverse. If there our universes is beyond our cosmological horizon(infinite.) The universe would be in standard space.

There are other interpretations which would not allow for the existence of space time before the big bang. The universes would basically exist in a sea of quantum foam. Each popping into and out of existence.
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You observed this? Interesting. If you don't believe the above explanation of the origin of our universe doesn't take some faith, I am not sure I can have much further discussion with you. The words "if", "interpretations", "would basically exist in a sea of quantum foam"....seriously?

I am not claiming to prove you are wrong, you are clearly very well versed in the sciences. All I am saying is that your opinion is founded primarily in faith. You have faith in your scientific method, but by your own words this method is based primarily in tested guesswork. Surely you can read your own posts and see this.
 
PhDeac said:
Wow.

If that's not evidence of science as religion, I don't know what is.
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So you are saying that the physical laws of the universe that we see when we observe moons and other planets in our solar system can't be trusted to remain the same over vast timeframes? You know, those laws that we can test and test and test and they will still prove to be correct
? Also, that pesky geographical evidence gleaned from our own Earth.

Stick with your sociology IMO.
 
ONW said:
I'm not getting your insinuation PH.
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He's saying that through the assumptions we make in order to conduct science, man has observed the creation.
 
PhDeac said:
He's saying that through the assumptions we make in order to conduct science, man has observed the creation.
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We have observed the creation of amino acids and other organic matter from materials that were prevalent on a young earth. The experiment has been running for less than 100 years. What do you expect?
 
Aren't the laws of physics only applicable starting just after the big bang?
 
ChrisL68 said:
Aren't the laws of physics only applicable starting just after the big bang?
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Yes. Theoretically, another universe could have vastly different laws of physics.

However, we are talking about planetary formation. The Earth was only formed 4.5 billion years ago.
 
TWDeac said:
We have observed the creation of amino acids and other organic matter from materials that were prevalent on a young earth. The experiment has been running for less than 100 years. What do you expect?
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How do we know that they are the same materials that were prevalent on a young earth?
 
LilburnDeac said:
How do we know that they are the same materials that were prevalent on a young earth?
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Spectroscopy of various objects in the solar system and the composition of Earth itself. Analyses of gases ejected by current day volcanoes and deep ocean vents and volcanoes in other part of the solar system.

Young earth was very tectonically and thus volcanically active and was under heavy bombardment from objects in the solar system. A veritable garden hose of nutrients, chemicals, and other elements were in constant supply.
 
TWDeac said:
Spectroscopy of various objects in the solar system and the composition of Earth itself. Analyses of gases ejected by current day volcanoes and deep ocean vents and volcanoes in other part of the solar system.

Young earth was very tectonically and thus volcanically active and was under heavy bombardment from objects in the solar system. A veritable garden hose of nutrients, chemicals, and other elements were in constant supply.
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But that is all speculation. It is grounded in very strong evidence. But it is circumstantial. It can't be known beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
(Heb 11:1 NIV) Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Hard not to look at TW's posts and say it's not faith.
 
PhDeac said:
(Heb 11:1 NIV) Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Hard not to look at TW's posts and say it's not faith.
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I wonder how many times we can have this discussion.

"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong." - Einstein
 
Good quote. And that's why TW and others should use the word "prove" very sparingly.
 
There is a certain amount of faith on one side based on very strong evidence . On the other side is faith based on absolutely zero evidence.
 
"The universe is just too darned orderly to be a big accident." Oliver Wendell Jones
 
Ironically, a show titled "What Happened Before the Big Bang?" is playing on discovery science at 9. Followed by a show titled "What is Reality?" at 10.
 
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