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Will radical Supreme Court destroy unions?

SkinsNDeacs said:
Would this even be an issue if unions were not so heavily involved in political fights that a large chunk of their members do not support?
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If the existential threat to the future of unions is no longer requiring mandatory dues, shouldn't the unions themselves put forth a value proposition to their members that keeps them from opting out? If union members themselves don't recognize and appreciate the value of their union dues, how is that anyone other than union leadership's fault/responsibility?
 
RJKarl said:
This happens because of the threat of a union. If unions didn't exist, he wouldn't have to pay as much or give benefits of equal value. He would have no fear.
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You could not be more wrong because you know nothing about the owner of the company.
 
It's impossible in RJ's world for a company to take care of their workers without a union presence there to force them to do so.
 
Liquid Karma said:
It's impossible in RJ's world for a company to take care of their workers without a union presence there to force them to do so.
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unions, EPA regulations, educational tenure, insurance, lawyers, government

all things people benefit from but love to hate
 
RJ just opened up a big bag of Beggin Strips with this thread.

 
SkinsNDeacs said:
You could not be more wrong because you know nothing about the owner of the company.
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You simply don't understand how management works.

A perfect parallel to your company is Steve Wynn. He has done exactly what your owner is doing. When he opens a new casino, he offers his employees wages and benefits at or better than union rates. This is what your company does.
 
RJKarl said:
You simply don't understand how management works.

A perfect parallel to your company is Steve Wynn. He has done exactly what your owner is doing. When he opens a new casino, he offers his employees wages and benefits at or better than union rates. This is what your company does.
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I can guarantee you that the reason my owner offers the packages he does has absolutely nothing to do with union pressure. I know this for a fact and there is concrete evidence to prove it. I am sure this will not convince you as I am sure you are an expert on the decision making of a man you have never met and company you know nothing about.
 
"Originally Posted by Liquid Karma View Post
It's impossible in RJ's world for a company to take care of their workers without a union presence there to force them to do so.
unions, EPA regulations, educational tenure, insurance, lawyers, government

all things people benefit from but love to hate"

This shows how little LK understands about me or the real world. His blind hatred keeps him from rationally looking at the world.

All you have to do to understand what would happen in the US without the EPA is look at places like Love canal, superfund sites, just over the Mexican border or this week in Beijing where the pollution is so bad that you can't see across the street.

What am I thinking? Companies would eschew extra profits to look out for the health and welfare of their employees, water, air and Earth out of the goodness of their hearts. Hey took a look a computer dumping grounds in India and China. Look at the cancer clusters along the Mexican border. Those companies do.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
I can guarantee you that the reason my owner offers the packages he does has absolutely nothing to do with union pressure. I know this for a fact and there is concrete evidence to prove it. I am sure this will not convince you as I am sure you are an expert on the decision making of a man you have never met and company you know nothing about.
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You simply don't understand economic realities. No company is an island. He sets his prices due to the regional market and market forces. If he doesn't, he wouldn't be successful.
 
RJ is saying (I think) that your company probably offers better wages and benefits to attract the best. If competitors had lower wages and benefits, your company could offer less and still attract the best.
 
avalon said:
RJ is saying (I think) that your company probably offers better wages and benefits to attract the best. If competitors had lower wages and benefits, your company could offer less and still attract the best.
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Exactly and part of those rates are influenced by unions in different aspects of your company's field.
 
avalon said:
RJ is saying (I think) that your company probably offers better wages and benefits to attract the best. If competitors had lower wages and benefits, your company could offer less and still attract the best.
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Yes and no. There are still other reasons for particular employers to want to offer significantly more than the market. For example, if the additional compensation increases the likelihood of longevity and reduces turnover, thus reducing related admin and downtime costs to the employer. That is especially important in jobs that require more on-the-job training than institutional education.
 
avalon said:
RJ is saying (I think) that your company probably offers better wages and benefits to attract the best. If competitors had lower wages and benefits, your company could offer less and still attract the best.
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Competitors do offer MUCH lower wages and benefits not only in the side of our business that competes against unionized locations but in other divisions of our company that have no union competition. He doesn't set his pay scale a click above competition...he pays what he thinks someone is worth. That is why he (we) have the best employees and one of the main reasons his company is extremely successful despite running a much higher operating cost.
 
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RJKarl said:
"Originally Posted by Liquid Karma View Post
It's impossible in RJ's world for a company to take care of their workers without a union presence there to force them to do so.
unions, EPA regulations, educational tenure, insurance, lawyers, government

all things people benefit from but love to hate"

This shows how little LK understands about me or the real world. His blind hatred keeps him from rationally looking at the world.

All you have to do to understand what would happen in the US without the EPA is look at places like Love canal, superfund sites, just over the Mexican border or this week in Beijing where the pollution is so bad that you can't see across the street.

What am I thinking? Companies would eschew extra profits to look out for the health and welfare of their employees, water, air and Earth out of the goodness of their hearts. Hey took a look a computer dumping grounds in India and China. Look at the cancer clusters along the Mexican border. Those companies do.
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Moron, I said nothing about the EPA, tenure (my wife is a college professor you ignorant twit), insurance, lawyers or government.

Stick to what I posted. There are companies out there who manage to provide a wonderful workplace for their employees without any union involvement. What are your thoughts on that.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
I can guarantee you that the reason my owner offers the packages he does has absolutely nothing to do with union pressure. I know this for a fact and there is concrete evidence to prove it. I am sure this will not convince you as I am sure you are an expert on the decision making of a man you have never met and company you know nothing about.
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Are you new? RJ is an expert on everything.
 
Unions should have to compete just like employers. I have no problem with unions. If they are providing a proper service for their members then they will be a viable option.

But that isn't what union leaders want. They don't want to compete, they want to have the power without accountability which allows them to bully management because mgmt knows their is no recourse if the union leaders behave in a poor manner.

Unions serve a purpose. But there is no reason to force any employee to join. If the service is a benefit to the employee they will join. If it isn't they won't. Simple as that.

Forcing people to spend money they don't want to for a service they are not sold on seems to be the Democratic way lately.
 
If they don't want for the union, don't apply for a job or work at a union shop. If they know going in XYZ Corp has a union, they have two choices-not work for XYZ Corp or pay the dues.

I can't believe people here are trying to justify benefiting from union negotiations but not having to pay for them.

Some of you may not know, but it is federal law that union members can opt out of the portion of dues that go to political activities. Hundreds of thousands of union members do this every year.
 
Wrangor said:
Unions should have to compete just like employers. I have no problem with unions. If they are providing a proper service for their members then they will be a viable option.

But that isn't what union leaders want. They don't want to compete, they want to have the power without accountability which allows them to bully management because mgmt knows their is no recourse if the union leaders behave in a poor manner.

Unions serve a purpose. But there is no reason to force any employee to join. If the service is a benefit to the employee they will join. If it isn't they won't. Simple as that.

Forcing people to spend money they don't want to for a service they are not sold on seems to be the Democratic way lately.
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This is sound logic. So why do conservatives just want to end unions indiscriminately?

Skins, I see what you're saying and you love your boss, but your sample of one logic is as ridiculous as jhmd's "I know a guy. I don't know a guy" logic. So what if your boss pays good wages out of the kindness out of his heart. It doesn't mean there shouldn't be some infrastructure to encourage other bosses to do so.
 
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