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Will radical Supreme Court destroy unions?

Would this even be an issue if unions were not so heavily involved in political fights that a large chunk of their members do not support?
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
Would this even be an issue if unions were not so heavily involved in political fights that a large chunk of their members do not support?
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probably not, but at the same time, industry spends many millions a year lobbying federal and state legislatures for anti-union laws. Unilateral disarmament would end the unions pretty quick.

it is possible to have a competitive unionized manufacturing sector (see esp.: Germany) but in a country where a company can simply move a couple states over and get a non-union work force, unions just don't have sufficient bargaining power to survive in the long term. They're dinosaurs and they don't have the organizational capacity to transform themselves into something that could work in a 21st century, skills and team based environment.
 
Deacon923 said:
probably not, but at the same time, industry spends many millions a year lobbying federal and state legislatures for anti-union laws. Unilateral disarmament would end the unions pretty quick.

it is possible to have a competitive unionized manufacturing sector (see esp.: Germany) but in a country where a company can simply move a couple states over and get a non-union work force, unions just don't have sufficient bargaining power to survive in the long term. They're dinosaurs and they don't have the organizational capacity to transform themselves into something that could work in a 21st century, skills and team based environment.
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Couple of thoughts

There is too much money being generated for union bosses and their political friends for things to change IMO.

The American union has become more about protecting the low performers and past producers (ridiculous and unsustainable pensions) than advancing the worker. In my wife's former job she was the head of HR at plant that employed workers from two different unions. It is absolutely mind blowing what their dues went to. They spent most of their resources fighting for workers that were nearly criminally incompetent. I could not imagine what a solid worker would think when he/she realizes that their dues go to fight for workers that don't deserve employment.
 
Market wages aren't sustainable either considering how many working poor we have. Taxpayers are picking up the slack to support people who do an honest day's work for less pay than they need to live. There's got to be a reasonable medium that doesn't strip workers of their rights to organize in their own best interest.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
Couple of thoughts

There is too much money being generated for union bosses and their political friends for things to change IMO.

The American union has become more about protecting the low performers and past producers (ridiculous and unsustainable pensions) than advancing the worker. In my wife's former job she was the head of HR at plant that employed workers from two different unions. It is absolutely mind blowing what their dues went to. They spent most of their resources fighting for workers that were nearly criminally incompetent. I could not imagine what a solid worker would think when he/she realizes that their dues go to fight for workers that don't deserve employment.
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totally agree.

We just took over a unionized facility. We told the employees we're going to give them one free meal a day at our dining facility, something the union had never been able to get for them, or even asked for, in 5 years. We did a survey, figured out it was a big deal for them, and gave it to them because it costs little and makes people's lives so much easier. I was not there, but I am told the employees were almost giddy over that. We also ended the automatic deduction of their dues from their paychecks, and guess what - turns out when they actually have to write a check, most of them don't really want to.
 
Deacon923 said:
totally agree.

We just took over a unionized facility. We told the employees we're going to give them one free meal a day at our dining facility, something the union had never been able to get for them, or even asked for, in 5 years. We did a survey, figured out it was a big deal for them, and gave it to them because it costs little and makes people's lives so much easier. I was not there, but I am told the employees were almost giddy over that. We also ended the automatic deduction of their dues from their paychecks, and guess what - turns out when they actually have to write a check, most of them don't really want to.
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I'd really like to know what has happened to union participation in WI in the union's impacted by Walker's legal changes. Has union membership plummeted? If so, is RJ's view that all the people that quit are incapable of deciding for themselves whehter they wanted to be a union member?
 
DeacMan said:
I'd really like to know what has happened to union participation in WI in the union's impacted by Walker's legal changes. Has union membership plummeted? If so, is RJ's view that all the people that quit are incapable of deciding for themselves whehter they wanted to be a union member?
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RJ Reynolds had the best approach to unions.

Union wants to TAKE your money?

Here's more and some stock if tell them to go away.

When KKR bought out the company, you couldn't buy a Cadillac in central North Carolina. I'm willing to think every single high school grad driving a brand new luxury car was 100% sure he was acting in his own best interests when he pulled into the driveway to show it to the Mrs.

Put labor and management on the same team by giving your employees an equity stake in the company, and watch what happens when everyone pulls the rope in the right direction.
 
RJKarl said:
They have already proved themselves to be radical.

There's no justification to allow people to benefit from the negotiations and not have to pay for the union. They don't have a right to work at a specific job. They chose to work there knowing there is a union and that there are dues.

If a lawyer negotiates a deal for you, do you have to pay him?

This would be a disaster to our country. Company after company would become WalMart. Our economy would be harmed. No other western nation would ever consider such a decision.
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RJ is right. Without the unions we will lose all of our manufacturing jobs to countries like China and Mexico. Our great major cities like Detroit would fall into financial ruin. We must save the unions at all costs. They are the only thing keeping America above water.
 
Deacon923 said:
totally agree.

We just took over a unionized facility. We told the employees we're going to give them one free meal a day at our dining facility, something the union had never been able to get for them, or even asked for, in 5 years. We did a survey, figured out it was a big deal for them, and gave it to them because it costs little and makes people's lives so much easier. I was not there, but I am told the employees were almost giddy over that. We also ended the automatic deduction of their dues from their paychecks, and guess what - turns out when they actually have to write a check, most of them don't really want to.
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the fact that the employees were bought off with a free lunch is pretty awesome given the topic
 
DeacMan said:
I'd really like to know what has happened to union participation in WI in the union's impacted by Walker's legal changes. Has union membership plummeted? If so, is RJ's view that all the people that quit are incapable of deciding for themselves whehter they wanted to be a union member?
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Was amazed at the general premise behind card check legislation-doing away with secret ballots in unionization efforts. If you truly believe that secret ballots are an unfair way to determine how people think, you're doing something wrong. There's a reason they're called union goons/thugs, not union pragmatic problem solvers.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Put labor and management on the same team by giving your employees an equity stake in the company, and watch what happens when everyone pulls the rope in the right direction.
Click to expand...

*rubs eyes*

jhmd? Good post.
 
jhmd2000 said:
RJ Reynolds had the best approach to unions.

Union wants to TAKE your money?

Here's more and some stock if tell them to go away.

When KKR bought out the company, you couldn't buy a Cadillac in central North Carolina. I'm willing to think every single high school grad driving a brand new luxury car was 100% sure he was acting in his own best interests when he pulled into the driveway to show it to the Mrs.

Put labor and management on the same team by giving your employees an equity stake in the company, and watch what happens when everyone pulls the rope in the right direction.
Click to expand...

I know I am throwing around a lot of anecdotes but...

My company operates in a heavily unionized industry. The owner of my company has made it very clear that if one of our location goes union he will sell it. That being said, no one has ever even thought twice about it because our workers are treated much better than union workers. They make more, their benefits and retirement are better and they are incentivized by corporate profits. However, if a person doesn't meet the high standard my company demands they don't stick around long and there is a line of people wanting to fill his/her job. The big difference between one of our locations and a lot of other places is that performance is rewarded and failing is not accepted / coddled. Incidentally even with the high wages and benefits we crush our union competitors on the balance sheets.
 
This happens because of the threat of a union. If unions didn't exist, he wouldn't have to pay as much or give benefits of equal value. He would have no fear.

No one has yet to answer the most basic questions:

Given that no one has the constitutional right to work for a specific company and that when one applies to a company that is union there are dues. why should you be exempt from those dues?

Should I be allowed to have one of the lawyers on the board negotiate a contract for me and continue working on my behalf and not pay him for his work while reaping the benefits of his work?

It goes back to these two questions. Only partisan, irrational hatred of unions can justify answering yes to either of these questions.
 
RJ's right on that point; the credible threat of collective bargaining makes jobs/working conditions/wages better for everyone in the industry.
 
jhmd2000 said:
RJ Reynolds had the best approach to unions.

Union wants to TAKE your money?

Here's more and some stock if tell them to go away.

When KKR bought out the company, you couldn't buy a Cadillac in central North Carolina. I'm willing to think every single high school grad driving a brand new luxury car was 100% sure he was acting in his own best interests when he pulled into the driveway to show it to the Mrs.

Put labor and management on the same team by giving your employees an equity stake in the company, and watch what happens when everyone pulls the rope in the right direction.
Click to expand...

Reynolds did it the right way. They took care of their employees, and in turn, saw greater results from them. Does Reynolds still follow this model, or do they follow the prevailing corporate model of pay some guys at the top, depress everyone else's wages, and tell them to be thankful that they have a job?
 
i mean, if you want to argue that unions are of no value I'm not sure continuing this thread is worthwhile.
 
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The posts on this thread make clear that there is no need for the courts to destroy the unions, union management is already doing a very good job of destroying them.
 
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