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It's happening before my very eyes...

bobknightfan said:
The article speaks for itself. I have no idea what you are talking about. Bob Knight didn't go out looking for trouble in that situation. He was a completely innocent victim in the matter.
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You think it displays good judgment to get into a "nose to nose argument" with a police officer over 15 minutes of practice time? Or to say "fuck them, fuck them all, the only thing they know how to do is grow bananas" in reference to an entire territory full of people?
 
ChrisL68 said:
Tabb got busted stealing stuff.
Woods got arrested for assault.
Terrell got a DUI.
Walker was busted with Woods and was allowed to stay until the last week of his college career.

Are people really saying that Derossiers and Chenault (sp?) are examples of the kinds of bad seeds we don't want? Really??????

That leaves Stewart, the one example of a player who could have possibly been shown the door before something blew up at Wake.
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I'm not the one judging the players, I'm just pointing out the ultimate reality. Most left the program one way or another. I'm just trying to figure out if you think it was intentional or not because we were left with a pretty bare cupboard in the end....and that has negatively affected our ability to compete now in a huge way.

So going by that list, were all the departures understandable in your opinion? It seems like it to me.
 
Of course it doesn't display good judgement and Bud would be quite judgmental about anybody else in that same circumstance who acted so rashly, but Bobby Knight hero worship apparently gives his life meaning. It's really bizarre.
 
pourdeac said:
I'm not the one judging the players, I'm just pointing out the ultimate reality. Most left the program one way or another. I'm just trying to figure out if you think it was intentional or not because we were left with a pretty bare cupboard in the end....and that has negatively affected our ability to compete now in a huge way.

So going by that list, were all the departures understandable in your opinion? It seems like it to me.
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Yes, the departures were reasonable. I just don't think it is much evidence of cleaning house. Cleaning house has been post hoc rationalization.
 
ThinkingWithMyDeac said:
hDE50A928
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these are great
 
bobknightfan said:
The U.S. team had every right to practice unimpeded in that gym for the full hour allotted to it. Bob Knight had every right...even an obligation...to see that they were given that right. The policeman's actions were indefensible. Every American witness there attested to that fact.
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No they didn't. They were practicing in a public high school. That high school, and by extension the Puerto Rican government, were kind enough to allow the U.S. team (and others) to practice there. If the Puerto Rican government wanted to ask the U.S. team or any other team to leave the high school, or if they wanted to allow all the teams in the gym at once, they had every right to do so. Bob Knight had no right to get in a nose to nose argument with a police officer. Depending on how the argument took place that alone would constitute assaulting a police officer.

Let's put it this way under the laws of the United States Gary Clark had more of a right to get a blowjob at 2AM on a road trip than Bob Knight had to directly disobey a police order.
 
I also don't know how Puerto Rico's government exists within the federal scheme, but Puerto Rico actually is America. Just to clarify. They're a part of the First Circuit and are bound by federal law as far as I know.
 
bobknightfan said:
LOL. I've been called a lot of things in my life, but this "racist" thing is a new one. Over the years, the perception of me has been just the opposite, where I've had far more criticism for supporting minority issues. To paraphrase that old country song "I was supporting civil rights in the rural south back before it was cool". I guess that one problem here is that I don't equate supporting irresponsible actions of some millionaire black athletes (or white millionaire athletes....those guys aren't black or white, they're green) with supporting civil rights issues, per se. For example, I'm more concerned about better pay, benefits & opportunities for minority fast food workers than I am in professional athletes who act like they are spending monopoly money.
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Yet you have no problem denigrating young black men who don't score well on their first SAT. For what reason exactly?
 
Also important to note is that James Johnson was not a millionaire athlete (black or white) when he was recruited to come to Wake, when he took the SAT multiple times, when he stepped on campus, when he wrote "pre-NBA" as his major, or when he played his ass off for Wake across his two years as a Wake player.
 
bobknightfan said:
LOL. I've been called a lot of things in my life, but this "racist" thing is a new one. Over the years, the perception of me has been just the opposite, where I've had far more criticism for supporting minority issues. To paraphrase that old country song "I was supporting civil rights in the rural south back before it was cool". I guess that one problem here is that I don't equate supporting irresponsible actions of some millionaire black athletes (or white millionaire athletes....those guys aren't black or white, they're green) with supporting civil rights issues, per se. For example, I'm more concerned about better pay, benefits & opportunities for minority fast food workers than I am in professional athletes who act like they are spending monopoly money.
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funny for someone who by his own admission spends most of his time posting on the Major League Baseball thread.
 
bobknightfan said:
LOL. I've been called a lot of things in my life, but this "racist" thing is a new one. Over the years, the perception of me has been just the opposite, where I've had far more criticism for supporting minority issues. To paraphrase that old country song "I was supporting civil rights in the rural south back before it was cool". I guess that one problem here is that I don't equate supporting irresponsible actions of some millionaire black athletes (or white millionaire athletes....those guys aren't black or white, they're green) with supporting civil rights issues, per se. For example, I'm more concerned about better pay, benefits & opportunities for minority fast food workers than I am in professional athletes who act like they are spending monopoly money.
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And most people don't equate either of those things with not being racist.
 
RChildress107 said:
And most people don't equate either of those things with not being racist.
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Correct.

BKF apparently gets to decide what color you are, and render his judgments accordingly.

Remind me again how much "obscene wealth" Bobby "O'Reilly Auto Parts" Knight has raked in during his lifetime?
 
ChrisL68 said:
Yes, the departures were reasonable. I just don't think it is much evidence of cleaning house. Cleaning house has been post hoc rationalization.
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Culture and fixing the program (cleaning house) were stated when Bz was hired though so how can that be post hoc rationalization?

IMO it's all been about fixing the problems not eliminating them. My take has been that Wellman didn't expect them all to leave. There was never a decision to do a total rebuild of the program, it was a tweak. He expected Bz to be Stevens (or Grobe) and coach them all up in and off the court....and everything would be great. But they all left for various understandable reasons. I think choice of new coach had a role in why a lot of those players left but you don't believe that.

But one other thing......what were the coaches to do with all the players leaving? That sort of left them in a pretty tough situation, didn't it? You rationalize the player departures as all understandable, but it's hard to win without decent, experienced players. How does one win without players and how were we supposed to get new ones quickly?
 
pourdeac said:
Culture and fixing the program (cleaning house) were stated when Bz was hired though so how can that be post hoc rationalization?

IMO it's all been about fixing the problems not eliminating them. My take has been that Wellman didn't expect them all to leave. There was never a decision to do a total rebuild of the program, it was a tweak. He expected Bz to be Stevens (or Grobe) and coach them all up in and off the court....and everything would be great. But they all left for various understandable reasons. I think choice of new coach had a role in why a lot of those players left but you don't believe that.

But one other thing......what were the coaches to do with all the players leaving? That sort of left them in a pretty tough situation, didn't it? You rationalize the player departures as all understandable, but it's hard to win without decent, experienced players. How does one win without players and how were we supposed to get new ones quickly?
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Wellman should be fired for this in itself.
 
pourdeac said:
Culture and fixing the program (cleaning house) were stated when Bz was hired though so how can that be post hoc rationalization?
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Culture was mentioned. I don't recall there being any sweeping comments about we needed to fix a problem or clean house or anything. The point is that if you're going to talk about [Redacted] fixing culture, you have to address why the most obvious culture problems were left on the team.
 
pourdeac said:
Culture and fixing the program (cleaning house) were stated when Bz was hired though so how can that be post hoc rationalization?

IMO it's all been about fixing the problems not eliminating them. My take has been that Wellman didn't expect them all to leave. There was never a decision to do a total rebuild of the program, it was a tweak. He expected Bz to be Stevens (or Grobe) and coach them all up in and off the court....and everything would be great. But they all left for various understandable reasons. I think choice of new coach had a role in why a lot of those players left but you don't believe that.

But one other thing......what were the coaches to do with all the players leaving? That sort of left them in a pretty tough situation, didn't it? You rationalize the player departures as all understandable, but it's hard to win without decent, experienced players. How does one win without players and how were we supposed to get new ones quickly?
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Name the specific problems that existed when Wellman hired [Redacted] in April 2010.

As to the last statement it's called recruiting. Buzz can't do it.
 
pourdeac said:
Culture and fixing the program (cleaning house) were stated when Bz was hired though so how can that be post hoc rationalization?

IMO it's all been about fixing the problems not eliminating them. My take has been that Wellman didn't expect them all to leave. There was never a decision to do a total rebuild of the program, it was a tweak. He expected Bz to be Stevens (or Grobe) and coach them all up in and off the court....and everything would be great. But they all left for various understandable reasons. I think choice of new coach had a role in why a lot of those players left but you don't believe that.

But one other thing......what were the coaches to do with all the players leaving? That sort of left them in a pretty tough situation, didn't it? You rationalize the player departures as all understandable, but it's hard to win without decent, experienced players. How does one win without players and how were we supposed to get new ones quickly?
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Huh? I remember sone vague standard coachspeak references to culture but absolutely nothing about cleaning house or fixing the program.

Clawson made reference to culture in his press conference too, and there is certainly no need to clean house in our football program.
 
Yeah, actually the exact opposite of "cleaning house" was the (initial) justification for getting rid of Dino. I believe "tweak" was used a few times. "Cleaning house" and "retaining all assistants" don't jibe.
 
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