It's happening before my very eyes...

[Greenwave Deacon]

Everyone has a different definition of all these terms.....so sure there's a lot of confusion. But I've been pretty clear from the beginning....and there is NO WAY it's circular logic Strickland. Wellman believed Dino to be the problem and wanted him replaced. That viewpoint is clear as day. IMO he had a personal issue with him of some type. He wanted to replace the Skip/Dino style/method/approach..whatever you want to call it...and wanted a Stevens-like coach.

Whatever issues or problems that existed with the players were secondary to Dino and would be solved by hiring the Stevens-like coach. Said coach would fix the players, and in the case of the recruits would get them off on the right foot (which was basically stated by Wellman at one point). Wellman's desire to make the change was strong and he rushed to get rid of Dino.

I don't see a problem with that viewpoint...other than its not "fuck Bz" enough for Strickland.

How is Buzz even close to a Stevens-like hire. What is it, his condescending attitude, lack of media skills, or just outright
Bad wardrobe choices?

 

[mothersodear]

I think Wellman sensed he had run out of options after firing Dino and then missing out on his top candidates. He panicked and called in a favor from an old buddy (aka bzzdaster.) Wellman tried to smooth the way (and stay in control, perhaps) by insisting bzz keep Dino's staff. Bzz was all too eager to accommodate the conditions set forth by Wellman because, at some level, he had to know this was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity -- the pie-in-the-sky dream job for him. Maybe Wellman has held onto bzz so long (in the face of abject ineptitude) because he was having to dish out so much $$$ to pay bzz and buy-out Dino, or maybe he simply felt loyal to the friend who came to his rescue when no one else would. (I have to wonder if RW was able to offer enough money to seriously entice Stevens or Ryan or Alford....I doubt it.)

 

[ChrisL68]

There were tons of up and coming coaches that would have died at this opprotunity. Maybe Wellman has finailly learned that 50 something coach isn't necessarily the "safe" choice.

 

[WFU71]

I think Wellman sensed he had run out of options after firing Dino and then missing out on his top candidates. He panicked and called in a favor from an old buddy (aka bzzdaster.) Wellman tried to smooth the way (and stay in control, perhaps) by insisting bzz keep Dino's staff. Bzz was all too eager to accommodate the conditions set forth by Wellman because, at some level, he had to know this was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity -- the pie-in-the-sky dream job for him. Maybe Wellman has held onto bzz so long (in the face of abject ineptitude) because he was having to dish out so much $$$ to pay bzz and buy-out Dino, or maybe he simply felt loyal to the friend who came to his rescue when no one else would. (I have to wonder if RW was able to offer enough money to seriously entice Stevens or Ryan or Alford....I doubt it.)

I'm with you on the first half of this post. I believe his difficulty in finding an adequate replacement for Dino was due to the coaching community's disbelief that a coach with Dino's record would be fired...who would trust that Wellman wouldn't do the same to them? Now that Bzz has failed, Wellman may feel obligated to keep him long enough to offset the trust problem.

I'm hopeful this nightmare ends in a couple of months with Bzz's resignation and Wellman saying he did everything asked of him.

 

[unclenorbert]

Sick burn! (likely from an older white guy)

Guilty as charged.

 

[mothersodear]

I'm with you on the first half of this post. I believe his difficulty in finding an adequate replacement for Dino was due to the coaching community's disbelief that a coach with Dino's record would be fired...who would trust that Wellman wouldn't do the same to them? Now that Bzz has failed, Wellman may feel obligated to keep him long enough to offset the trust problem.

I'm hopeful this nightmare ends in a couple of months with Bzz's resignation and Wellman saying he did everything asked of him.

Yeah, your theory is solid, too. Let's just hope that RW has met whatever goal inspired him to hang onto the worst coach in Division I ball for four years.

 

[deacvision7]

I believe the socks thing happened during practice or a scrimmage before the season started. It was already a joke when we played Stetson...IIRC.

You don't recall correctly.


That wasn't even something that [Redacted] said. It was something Ron Wellman said during one of his post game interviews with Stan easily over halfway into [Redacted]'s first season here.

 

[ChrisL68]

You don't recall correctly.


That wasn't even something that [Redacted] said. It was something Ron Wellman said during one of his post game interviews with Stan easily over halfway into [Redacted]'s first season here.

That's what I thought too. One of Ron's "fireside chats" with Stan in year one.

 

[deacvision7]

It was Ron Wellman talking about John Wooden and how he taught his team to wear socks on the first day of practice at UCLA.


Maybe that is where pour was getting his practice memory from, but he was mistaken on who was running the practices. And as such, pour is mistaken on when the "culture" talk really got going. It was well after the losses to Stetson, Presby, et al.

 

[ChrisL68]

Bzzz made a couple of blanket references to the culture he would install at Wake in his PC, but it was standard coachspeak that every coach makes.

 

[SC DEAC]

If Wellman had just kept Gaudio one more year, we would have had a tough season since we were losing a big senior class and Aminu and Wellman could have fired him and no one would have blinked an eye. Just the first in a series of just horrible, terrible decisions by Wellman that have lead us to this place. The more I think about it, the more I'm amazed that Wellman still has a job considering how every basketball decision he has made since Prosser's death has turned to absolute shit.

 

[sailordeac]

That line you mention is entirely subjective, which is fine, most job performance evaluations are going to include some subjectivity. But when Wellman/the AD pushed various narratives upon the fan base that were incongruent with A) reality and B) each other, I think it's natural for elements of said fan base to push back and ask these questions.

The whisper campaign against Dino undertaken by certain parts of the fan base, the community and (very likely) elements of the Athletic Department remains one of the most disgusting things I've ever witnessed that's remotely associated with Wake Forest. (The dude who shit all over Collins Hall that one year is also up there.) And then to lecture about "culture" and "class" and other veiled pseudo-racist allusions meant to cater to big, old money donors? GTFO.

Yeah. Irish has done a nice job of summing up a central aspect of the culture problem. The people most insistent on having a proper culture for our basketball players (which presumeably means that they will behave properly, try to make reasonable progress in school, and try to graduate, instead of doing the minimal required for eligibility and looking for the first opportunity to head for the NBA) have themselves behaved in a highly questionable manner. Namely, they have been dishonest about the firing of Dino and the hiring of Jeff [Redacted], they have been dishonest in defending the Buzz hire, they have behaved contemptously toward the part of the fan base, which quite reasonably questioned them about this hire, they have smeared former players and especially Coach Gaudio with innuendos, and in general refused to accept any accountability for themselves. The question of when the culture argument was raised and when it became a centerpiece for Buzz support can be debated. The question of unacceptable behavior on the part of the leader of our athletic department cannot.

 

[marquee moon]

If Wellman had just kept Gaudio one more year, we would have had a tough season since we were losing a big senior class and Aminu and Wellman could have fired him and no one would have blinked an eye. Just the first in a series of just horrible, terrible decisions by Wellman that have lead us to this place. The more I think about it, the more I'm amazed that Wellman still has a job considering how every basketball decision he has made since Prosser's death has turned to absolute shit.

Not so sure Gaudio would have struggled with that squad like Bz did

not saying final four because dino kind of sucked as a coach, but definitely a better record

 

[Turd Ferguson]

If Wellman had just kept Gaudio one more year, we would have had a tough season since we were losing a big senior class and Aminu and Wellman could have fired him and no one would have blinked an eye. Just the first in a series of just horrible, terrible decisions by Wellman that have lead us to this place. The more I think about it, the more I'm amazed that Wellman still has a job considering how every basketball decision he has made since Prosser's death has turned to absolute shit.

No one was pissed when he did fire Dino. I remember being pretty excited about getting a great coach to build on Odom and Prosser's success. If he had waited a year and then hired Bz, everyone would still be just as pissed. Firing Dino and hiring Bz are two different things.

 

[deaconson]

Culture and fixing the program (cleaning house) were stated when Bz was hired though so how can that be post hoc rationalization?

IMO it's all been about fixing the problems not eliminating them. My take has been that Wellman didn't expect them all to leave. There was never a decision to do a total rebuild of the program, it was a tweak. He expected Bz to be Stevens (or Grobe) and coach them all up in and off the court....and everything would be great. But they all left for various understandable reasons. I think choice of new coach had a role in why a lot of those players left but you don't believe that.

But one other thing......what were the coaches to do with all the players leaving? That sort of left them in a pretty tough situation, didn't it? You rationalize the player departures as all understandable, but it's hard to win without decent, experienced players. How does one win without players and how were we supposed to get new ones quickly?

wellman knew how the hire looked. he knew bzz had zero post season success after saying dino was fired for his lack of post season success. the culture talk was an attempt to diffuse that criticism before anyone had a chance to ask the question. after the initial surprise/outrage died down bzz began to lose and lose big. that is when the culture club really kicked it up a notch and it turned to character assassination.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

No one was pissed when he did fire Dino. I remember being pretty excited about getting a great coach to build on Odom and Prosser's success. If he had waited a year and then hired Bz, everyone would still be just as pissed. Firing Dino and hiring Bz are two different things.

yep

 

[Why the Deac Not]

Not really sure why anyone would objectively think that the 2010-11 team under Gaudio, had he not been fired, would have been much better than they were. Better defense maybe? I don't think it would have mattered much, that team was atrocious. There may have been some individuals like Travis, CJ and JTT with some natural ability, but I remember going to the game against Elon played at the GSOC and feeling quite disgusted by how poorly they played as a "team." Some will blame that on Buzz saying it's obvious he's a bad coach, but it was readily apparent that every single one of those players not named CJ or Travis seemed clueless about the finer points of team b'ball, positioning and the like. Aside from Travis & CJ, is it not glaringly obvious that Gaudio's recruiting record left a lot to be desired and we were headed down the drain anyway (behavioral or academic issues aside)?

I am of the same school of thought as SC Deac that it may have been better to let Dino have even more rope with which to hang himself in the 4th year. But perhaps the running balance on all of his unpaid parking tickets was starting to approach an entire year's salary? Or maybe there were enough internal administrative "infractions" committed by Dino that made certain aspects of his contract voidable and therefore easier to buy him out. Obviously, as discussed ad nauseam on this board, the timing of his dismissal was quite peculiar to say the least and left most everyone scratching their collective heads.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Firing Dino gave Wake a chance to be THAT team that makes a move at the right time and snags a hot young coach.

We hired Jeff [Redacted].

 

[ImTheCaptain]

Firing Dino gave Wake a chance to be THAT team that makes a move at the right time and snags a hot young coach.

We hired Jeff [Redacted].

 

[WFUWaldo]

Not really sure why anyone would objectively think that the 2010-11 team under Gaudio, had he not been fired, would have been much better than they were. Better defense maybe? I don't think it would have mattered much, that team was atrocious. There may have been some individuals like Travis, CJ and JTT with some natural ability, but I remember going to the game against Elon played at the GSOC and feeling quite disgusted by how poorly they played as a "team." Some will blame that on Buzz saying it's obvious he's a bad coach, but it was readily apparent that every single one of those players not named CJ or Travis seemed clueless about the finer points of team b'ball, positioning and the like. Aside from Travis & CJ, is it not glaringly obvious that Gaudio's recruiting record left a lot to be desired and we were headed down the drain anyway (behavioral or academic issues aside)?

The unknown is if Dino would have dismissed Tony from the team. We still wouldn't have been good (or even close to it), but losing Tony was a big blow.