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Willing to take on a few Hoops Bets @ 17.5

jaybone said:
Message me your address or paypal account info fellas. I'll wait til it is official I expect to lose all 4 bets. Will be pleasantly surprised to get 16. Will take a Miami win I think
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jaybone said:
Message me your address or paypal account info fellas. I'll wait til it is official I expect to lose all 4 bets. Will be pleasantly surprised to get 16. Will take a Miami win I think
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HA! You think I'm that stupid!? You just want me to jinx myself by counting my chickens before they hatch. If I were to be foolish enough to send you my PayPal info now, that would guarantee that Buzz wins the next four games. Well I'm on to your little plan. I'm not going to jinx myself, Sarg, Redwing, or even PH by sending you my info early. Now if you'll excuse me, does anyone know where I put my four leafed clover?
 
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deacvision7 said:
The bravado is gone.


RIP, jaybone's bravado.
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haha. I stand by my first sentence though. If you could pare down Bzd's problems to a few, tops on the list (for me) is that he's just not the leader of a top 35 basketball program. Leaders have to be followed. And they have to lead. That ain't happening or at least happening consistently.

Second - he's a Dead Man Walking and has been since arguably losing to Presby 3+ years ago. This 7 game losing streak reminds me a lot of watching that Bob Wade team the year he got canned. Not untalented necessarily, but flawed and confused.

I can't tell whether this team has quit, gets their head down after going down by more than 8 with a "here we go" body response, or is just that seriously flawed talent wise. We aren't a great outside shooting team and we can't pound it into the post either so maybe this is just a thoroughly fucked collective whom individually aren't that bad. Do you put Tyler Cav on Syracuse and he's a 3-point monster? I don't know. But I do know that as much as I like CMM and I like Madison Jones, they are lethal on the floor together and not in a good way.
 
jaybone said:
haha. I stand by my first sentence though. If you could pare down Bzd's problems to a few, tops on the list (for me) is that he's just not the leader of a top 35 basketball program. Leaders have to be followed. And they have to lead. That ain't happening or at least happening consistently.

Second - he's a Dead Man Walking and has been since arguably losing to Presby 3+ years ago. This 7 game losing streak reminds me a lot of watching that Bob Wade team the year he got canned. Not untalented necessarily, but flawed and confused.

I can't tell whether this team has quit, gets their head down after going down by more than 8 with a "here we go" body response, or is just that seriously flawed talent wise. We aren't a great outside shooting team and we can't pound it into the post either so maybe this is just a thoroughly fucked collective whom individually aren't that bad. Do you put Tyler Cav on Syracuse and he's a 3-point monster? I don't know. But I do know that as much as I like CMM and I like Madison Jones, they are lethal on the floor together and not in a good way.
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You are starting to make more sense! I am so proud of you.

...except that part about Cav. He just isn't a good basketball player.
 
I think Cav is a decent player. Nobody will ever confuse him for Tim Duncan, but he's considerably better than say, Andre Washington.
 
This thread isn't over until jaybone concedes [Redacted] is awful. It's coming. I can feel it.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I think Cav is a decent player. Nobody will ever confuse him for Tim Duncan, but he's considerably better than say, Andre Washington.
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And here I was believing that hype told by the clearly smart Deman that Andre Washington would be the best player on the team by the end of his sophomore year. Silly me!

I guess Andre just didn't have that desire to want it enough to be the best player. A real shame, that. Made my belief in Deman's belief in Andre look foolish.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I think Cav is a decent player. Nobody will ever confuse him for Tim Duncan, but he's considerably better than say, Andre Washington.
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Yeah, Cav's showing some signs - sneaky 35% from deep in ACC play. Next coach is going to inherit 4 very good role players and a solid backup point guard. Just need a starting point guard and an elite scorer, along with some competent coaching, to make this a tournament team.

Jaybone - you should offer double or nothing that the Deacs finish with a winning record. Keep things interesting...
 
TheIshThatSaved WakeForest said:
Joe Dukes may be better than Madison Jones
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This. If we were bad enough to give Joe Dukes Madison's minutes, then I'm almost positive he would have been better than Madison. I'm basing this on what he went on to do as a starter in the CAA (he was actually good at GSU) and some limited inference from statistics from his time at Wake.

This historical awfulness of this team is going to take a few years to sink in, but our backcourt makes the much-maligned JGray/Hale/Dukes experiment look historically competitive. A lot of folks on here bought into some really silly hype.
 
I'll say he's been close to awful for Wake. How's that?

I do think there is a reality to college hoops that started to hit four or five years ago where there are going to be six or seven stacked teams with 3 or more 1st round NBA picks, or certainly projected that way when they show up at college (remember when Amile Jefferson was a 5star recruit passing through Duke for a year?), and it is going to be really hard to be a better or more talented team than those schools (or more specifically, those coaches), so you have two choices. You try and find a coach who will eventually become an icon (like Jimmy B or Coach K) and get those players or you try and find a guy who can really coach who leads a program with guys that usually stay 3 or 4 years, utilizing experience, behing well-coached, cohesiveness like a Brad Stevens. Wellman chose the later and he failed. Or possibly worse, Wellman tried to grab a poor man's Stevens with NBA cred and hope that you toss that up and out pops some sort of Stevens-Coach B hybrid. We got a lemon instead sadly.

Which is not necessarily saying that Bzd sucks ass. It's more, considering how much he sucks at leading a program, leading a staff, recruiting elite players, etc..., it turned out he was not nearly a good enough coach to overcome those failures/weaknesses. Add to that the rug was sort of pulled out from under him to start and he chose arrogantly to insist on guys doing what he was teaching (half ass defense, half ass uptempo Princeton offense) at the expense of using height and athleticism to run the bunnies on our schedule off the court (or at least beat them 10-15 points and build some confidence) - at which point the majority of the fanbase was already branding him Dead Man Walking. His personality was not going to recover from that. Skip could have. This dude no.

But college basketball is so much about confidence. The NBA is about talent. Talent and coaching. College basketball is about talent, confidence and coaching. And Bzd has some sort of innate ability to fuck with the confidence of college players.

But I was dead wrong on this guy and am totally willing to own up to that. I was hoping he'd be fired last year. I pulled for the team and for him this year because from what I understand, he's a pretty good guy off the court. And he was the Wake coach after all. I just can't bring myself to pull against the team for an end goal of getting rid of him. But all that said, yes I was super high on the hire at the start, unconcerned at the end of year 1, happy as shit to lose all the transfers at the end of year 2 save Carson (who is tearing it up at Providence averaging 2 pts 3 rebounds a game), and I liked the make up of the team after year 3 though had given up on Bzd being anything more than a Herb Sendek jock sniffer. Sadly, as year 4 ends, I can't say I'm even high on the make up of the team even though I pretty much like everyone getting minutes.

Over out.
 
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DCDeac said:
Yeah, Cav's showing some signs - sneaky 35% from deep in ACC play. Next coach is going to inherit 4 very good role players and a solid backup point guard. Just need a starting point guard and an elite scorer, along with some competent coaching, to make this a tournament team.

Jaybone - you should offer double or nothing that the Deacs finish with a winning record. Keep things interesting...
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I don't share your optimism, I think we're gonna win about the same number of games next year even with a good coach, but hope you're right.
 
jaybone said:
I'll say he's been close to awful for Wake. How's that?

I do think there is a reality to college hoops that started to hit four or five years ago where there are going to be six or seven stacked teams with 3 or more 1st round NBA picks, or certainly projected that way when they show up at college (remember when Amile Jefferson was a 5star recruit passing through Duke for a year?), and it is going to be really hard to be a better or more talented team than those schools (or more specifically, those coaches), so you have two choices. You try and find a coach who will eventually become an icon (like Jimmy B or Coach K) and get those players or you try and find a guy who can really coach who leads a program with guys that usually stay 3 or 4 years, utilizing experience, behing well-coached, cohesiveness like a Brad Stevens. Wellman chose the later and he failed. Or possibly worse, Wellman tried to grab a poor man's Stevens with NBA cred and hope that you toss that up and out pops some sort of Stevens-Coach B hybrid. We got a lemon instead sadly.

Which is not necessarily saying that Bzd sucks ass. It's more, considering how much he sucks at leading a program, leading a staff, recruiting elite players, etc..., it turned out he was not nearly a good enough coach to overcome those failures/weaknesses. Add to that the rug was sort of pulled out from under him to start and he chose arrogantly to insist on guys doing what he was teaching (half ass defense, half ass uptempo Princeton offense) at the expense of using height and athleticism to run the bunnies on our schedule off the court (or at least beat them 10-15 points and build some confidence) - at which point the majority of the fanbase was already branding him Dead Man Walking. His personality was not going to recover from that. Skip could have. This dude no.

But college basketball is so much about confidence. The NBA is about talent. Talent and coaching. College basketball is about talent, confidence and coaching. And Bzd has some sort of innate ability to fuck with the confidence of college players.

But I was dead wrong on this guy and am totally willing to own up to that. I was hoping he'd be fired last year. I pulled for the team and for him this year because from what I understand, he's a pretty good guy off the court. And he was the Wake coach after all. I just can't bring myself to pull against the team for an end goal of getting rid of him. But all that said, yes I was super high on the hire at the start, unconcerned at the end of year 1, happy as shit to lose all the transfers at the end of year 2 save Carson (who is tearing it up at Providence averaging 2 pts 3 rebounds a game), and I liked the make up of the team after year 3 though had given up on Bzd being anything more than a Herb Sendek jock sniffer. Sadly, as year 4 ends, I can't say I'm even high on the make up of the team even though I pretty much like everyone getting minutes.

Over out.
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HUH?
 
Don't be too hard on yourself le bone, this guy also thought Wake was getting a great coach:

"What a wealth of experience Wake Forest is getting with this hire. Jeff has been a head coach in the NBA, a college assistant and a college head coach -- at very different types of schools. Jeff has been an outstanding coach and person in all of them. Wake Forest is getting a terrific coach in Jeff [Redacted]."
- Mike Krzyzewski, Head Coach, Duke University
 
Marquee Moon said:
HUH?
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We were gonna suck Bzd's first year with or without him. Or incoming recruits were all overrated except probably Travis. Tabb is averaging 2 pts a game at Kent State. Carson is at about the same at Providence. Tony C below that. And Terrell, the most talented of the bunch was and continues to be a poor shooting deeply flawed up and down player.

NBA guys, from what I understand, liked Bzd a lot. He had long tenure at a lot of places. Just not as a coach ...
 
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