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Willing to take on a few Hoops Bets @ 17.5

I don't like seeing this humble jaybone, it's like his spirit has been broken.
 
jaybone said:
We were gonna suck Bzd's first year with or without him. Or incoming recruits were all overrated except probably Travis. Tabb is averaging 2 pts a game at Kent State. Carson is at about the same at Providence. Tony C below that. And Terrell, the most talented of the bunch was and continues to be a poor shooting deeply flawed up and down player.

NBA guys, from what I understand, liked Bzd a lot. He had long tenure at a lot of places. Just not as a coach ...
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There is a big difference between 8-24 (#271) suck and 15-17 (#125ish) suck. We were headed towards the second kind of season.

Each of the 4 lost members of the 2010 class have posted a PER of at least 11 during their career and had at least 1 win share in a given season. There are only 5 players on our current team that can say the same (Travis, CMM, Devin, Coron, Cavanaugh).

That class was certainly overrated, but it's poor performance has been overstated and [Redacted] almost certainly played a substantial part in that poor performance. Carson and JTT both clearly had the talent to start for all 4 years.
 
jaybone said:
We were gonna suck Bzd's first year with or without him. Or incoming recruits were all overrated except probably Travis. Tabb is averaging 2 pts a game at Kent State. Carson is at about the same at Providence. Tony C below that. And Terrell, the most talented of the bunch was and continues to be a poor shooting deeply flawed up and down player.

NBA guys, from what I understand, liked Bzd a lot. He had long tenure at a lot of places. Just not as a coach ...
Click to expand...

so, what you are saying is that you know an NBA scout?
 
RChildress107 said:
There is a big difference between 8-24 (#271) suck and 15-17 (#125ish) suck. We were headed towards the second kind of season.
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BUT JOHN DAMN WOODEN COULDN'T HAVE DONE ANY BETTER THAN BUZZ DID?!@?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
RChildress107 said:
That class was certainly overrated, but it's poor performance has been overstated and [Redacted] almost certainly played a substantial part in that poor performance. Carson and JTT both clearly had the talent to start for all 4 years.
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Why in the eff do you keep saying this? That class blew. Not even the great Andy Enfield could make JTT into a player. Just give it up.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
Don't be too hard on yourself le bone, this guy also thought Wake was getting a great coach:

"What a wealth of experience Wake Forest is getting with this hire. Jeff has been a head coach in the NBA, a college assistant and a college head coach -- at very different types of schools. Jeff has been an outstanding coach and person in all of them. Wake Forest is getting a terrific coach in Jeff [Redacted]."
- Mike Krzyzewski, Head Coach, Duke University
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The Rat would still say the same thing today if asked, he just doesn't believe it like he didn't believe it when he first said it.
 
RChildress107 said:
There is a big difference between 8-24 (#271) suck and 15-17 (#125ish) suck. We were headed towards the second kind of season.

Each of the 4 lost members of the 2010 class have posted a PER of at least 11 during their career and had at least 1 win share in a given season. There are only 5 players on our current team that can say the same (Travis, CMM, Devin, Coron, Cavanaugh).

That class was certainly overrated, but it's poor performance has been overstated and [Redacted] almost certainly played a substantial part in that poor performance. Carson and JTT both clearly had the talent to start for all 4 years.
Click to expand...
This. The 2010 class was horribly overrated and had all sorts of other issues. Fine; it happens. But as someone posted at the time, imagine this was the MLB and we had a coaching version of WAR. [Redacted] would get a 0.0 if not a negative WAR. Do I think it's possible that that team could've been good? No. But, compared to a reasonably obtainable replacement-level basketball coach, I really don't think it's possible for [Redacted] to have done poorer with that roster than he actually did.
 
If we had hired Brad Brownell, that team would not have gone 8-24. And I don't think Brownell is a particularly great coach.
 
Bzzz is very possibly the worst college coach of all time, but let's be serious that 2010 team was atrocious in pretty much every way. Not mutually exclusive. I'm sure pretty much any other coach would have done better, but probably not that much better. JTT stinks. Carson wouldn't have started for a single pre-Bzzz Wake team since the Staak era (if then).
 
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IAppreciateIt said:
Bzzz is very possibly the worst college coach of all time, but let's be serious that 2010 team was atrocious in pretty much every way. Not mutually exclusive. I'm sure pretty much any other coach would have done better, but probably not that much better. JTT stinks. Carson wouldn't have started for a single pre-Bzzz Wake team since the Staak era (if then).
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It's terrifying to consider we also started Nikita his Senior year.
 
My "favorite" part about this year is that the only two people we lost were CJ and Chase and somehow we got precipitously worse at rebounding.
 
Think in 7 years the best he can hope for if he wins at Miami is 4 conference road wins between Colorado and Wake. That number is fucking mindblowing.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
Bzzz is very possibly the worst college coach of all time, but let's be serious that 2010 team was atrocious in pretty much every way. Not mutually exclusive. I'm sure pretty much any other coach would have done better, but probably not that much better. JTT stinks. Carson wouldn't have started for a single pre-Bzzz Wake team since the Staak era (if then).
Click to expand...

Yet both would conceivably start for us this year. They would at least be in the top 7.

There are two basic ways to view that year.

1. We could not have done much better than 8-24 (#271) regardless of the coach. This would mean the players were so deficient in talent and experience/chemistry/other intangibles that they were destined to be one of the 100 worst teams in the nation.

2. A decent to good coach would have gotten us to 14-16 wins (#150-100). This would mean the players were one of the worst collections of talent at Wake Forest in recent memory, yet still above average compared to most college teams. It would also mean that [Redacted] was such an abysmal coach that he failed to get anything out of what little talent he had and actually had a negative effect on the players' development.


Given what we knew about the players and the coach coming in, and what we have seen from the players and the coach since, #2 seems far more plausible to me.

I refuse to believe that Dino and the collective scouting services were so completely wrong that we were left without the talent capable of finishing in the top 150.
 
Jaybone:knowing basketball::[Redacted]:

Answer: coaching basketball
 
The 2006-2007 team finished 102 in kenpom. The 2010-11 team finished 271.

Do people really believe these two rosters are 169 spots apart?

06-07: Ish, LD, Drum, Skeen, Visser Bench: Hale, Gurley, Weaver, Dukes

10-11: CJ, JTT, Gary, Travis, Carson Bench: Ari, Ty, Tony, Nikita
 
Can jaybone shock the world with a 4 game winning streak to end the season? Probably not.
 
RChildress107 said:
The 2006-2007 team finished 102 in kenpom. The 2010-11 team finished 271.

Do people really believe these two rosters are 169 spots apart?

06-07: Ish, LD, Drum, Skeen, Visser Bench: Hale, Gurley, Weaver, Dukes

10-11: CJ, JTT, Gary, Travis, Carson Bench: Ari, Ty, Tony, Nikita
Click to expand...

06-07 had an nba player, so yes
 
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