Republicans for POTUS, 2016 Edition

[Wakeforest22890]

Completely off-topic, but maybe not, I think you could use the same argument that the bad PP does should disqualify it from receiving money from the federal government to churches not receiving tax-exempt status in many cases anymore. If you're going to say the bad outweighs the good, then PP and the church could both easily lose their status as receiving benefits from the government. Maybe that's too far afield though.

 

[Baconwfu]

No. One is actually taken from a line item of services from a tax form and the other is not.

Yes, but that doesn't make it any less misleading. The video had a good point that the end game of visits to PP is more than 3% abortion...people who get abortions also get "other services" in preparation for the abortion, which dilutes the "prevalence" of abortion. The video obviously and conveniently then ignores everything else and somehow comes up with 93%...which obviously is nowhere near that level.
For the record, the notion of shutting down/defunding PP is ridiculous to me

 

[ThinkingWithMyDeac]

"American's are dumb as shit."
--ThinkingWithMyDeac

(sorry man, but that is hilarious)

Yeah I do that a lot. The mostly typing from my phone is a problem. Townie appreciates my grammar, spelling, running train of thought so much he included me in his worst posters for making his head hurt.

 

[TownieDeac]

I'll respond to each point individually.

I am skirting the issue? How so? I am defending an all on liberal attack right now. Skirting the issue would have not been responding to your drivel.

PP doesn't even do many of the 'services' they perform. They outsource them.

Referral service is very important, especially in states with abstinence only education in the classroom and limited access to rural or urban health care. Just like if you were to go to a primary care physician for pain in your foot and they sent you to a specialist. We still need the Primary Care Physicians. You know, for the rest of everything that they do.

How hard would it be for another women's health organization to rise up and outsource the same services?

Access to health care for poor people is a mixed bag in America. In states without the Medicaid expansion, it's especially bad. A decentralized model could work in some places, but national scale helps underserved communities where sexual health and women's health are only one of many, many problems.

The defense of PP is atrocious. Their practices are obviously disgusting for someone who is pro-life, but should even make the most ardent pro-abortions person a little uncomfortable.

just hand-wringing, no real argument here

There is no reason we need to be supported an organization like PP with federal money. Give all of that money to other organizations that have a clean record. Let PP do their abortions on their own dime which is what they are supposed to be doing anyway.

This is what already happens. You've been duped by a series of hack job videos. It's unfortunate that it works, but it does. Engaging with you does help me understand why we have Donald Trump, or "binders full of women" or a 77% pay gap, or a country that just on the whole doesn't respect women. It's because of a complete and utter lack of respect. As avalon pointed out, you said you wouldn't be able to handle giving birth, and in the same thread argue vehemently against women's rights. It's wild stuff.

 

[deacvision7]

Oh. My. God.

You are stupid beyond words if you believe that tripe that I just watched. That is one of the most gross mis-use of statistics that I can recall seeing.

But let's break this down. 348,869 of all the procedures done by Planned Parenthood in 2012 related to women already being pregnant.

348,869. Hefty number, that.

10,933,675 services were performed in total during the year in question. Whoa. Heftier number right there!


348,869/10,933,675 = 3.2% of all services were directly related to pregnancy with Planned Parenthood. ACCORDING TO THE VIDEO PROVIDED.

Now, it should not shock you that many women with unwanted pregnancies came to Planned Parenthood to have abortions and therefore they would increase the percentage of women there with pregnancies had abortions. Planned Parenthood isn't a typical place to see an OB, now is it?
So the services rendered among pregnant women only (3.2% of all their clientele in the year given) will naturally skew highly towards abortion. THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT ONLY 3% OF SERVICES RENDERED BY PLANNED PARENTHOOD ARE ABORTION, YOU DUNCE.

Does that breakdown surprise you?

I'm guessing it would surprise you because you fall for terrible arguments in YouTube clips and don't know how statistics works.


Have a blessed day, Wrangor. Try to educate yourself on statistics and what they mean. Cheers!

 

[avalon]

Serious question:

With healthcare reform, contraception being covered under the ACA, and presumably affordable healthcare available (which is another discussion), Is greater access to healthcare a mitigating factor to the necessity of PP for other health services?

I fully understand that the majority of those pushing to defund PP are also those who are trying to defund the ACA, but political vilification aside, is a stronger national healthcare system making any sort of difference in the need for PP and the services it provides?

Still need someone to perform the services. PP actually says much of the money they get from the government is through Medicaid.

 

[deacvision7]

cursing usually helps make your point.

You are fucking ignorant when it comes to statistics.



.... You're right! That did help me make my point!

 

[ImTheCaptain]

I am skirting the issue? How so? I am defending an all on liberal attack right now. Skirting the issue would have not been responding to your drivel.

PP doesn't even do many of the 'services' they perform. They outsource them. How hard would it be for another women's health organization to rise up and outsource the same services? The defense of PP is atrocious. Their practices are obviously disgusting for someone who is pro-life, but should even make the most ardent pro-abortions person a little uncomfortable. There is no reason we need to be supported an organization like PP with federal money. Give all of that money to other organizations that have a clean record. Let PP do their abortions on their own dime which is what they are supposed to be doing anyway.

meh, you're just flat wrong about PP. sorry.

 

[Wrangor]

All of this shit is infuriating because American's are dumb as shit. You can use gotcha videos, shitty math, anything that is flashy enough and people will be like oh yeah that's definitely correct. To hell with having a conversation and real debate we will just manipulate things to fit our preconceived agenda. The best posts about abortion have been the calls for reform in which abortion numbers are curbed, safety is enforced, and abortions remain legal in the hopes of using other services to prevent the need for abortions in the first place. The best solution possible would be planned parenthood stops doing abortions with the condition that their funding is increased something like 10 fold to provide free sex services to everyone and anyone.

Completely on board with this. If PP really doesn't use federal money to perform abortions, then they need to separate it completely by creating another entity to perform the abortions. Then give PP more money for their other services. Would be completely fine with that. The reality is that there is always going to be someone doing abortions as long as it is legal. I just don't want my tax dollars tacitly supporting it. Right now the federal money props up the organization so it can be an abortion provider. Let the abortions rest on their own laurels, and allow PP (or some other organization) to provide actual health services to females. Would protect PP from being embroiled in this type of political upheaval.

 

[Wrangor]

You are fucking ignorant when it comes to statistics.



.... You're right! That did help me make my point!

Brilliant! :bowrofl:

 

[TownieDeac]

Yes, but that doesn't make it any less misleading. The video had a good point that the end game of visits to PP is more than 3% abortion...people who get abortions also get "other services" in preparation for the abortion, which dilutes the "prevalence" of abortion.

OK. We could just compare 300k abortions to numbers of STD tests, PAP smear, counseling services, breast exams, men's health visits. That is not so misleading. And even if other services are rolled into abortion services and we recouple the numbers, it's still a small portion of what they actually do.

 

[Wrangor]

Still need someone to perform the services. PP actually says much of the money they get from the government is through Medicaid.

Yet PP doesn't actually perform many of those services. Take Papsmears for example. They don't perform any of them. They are outsourced....all 500,000 of them.

 

[TownieDeac]

Completely on board with this. If PP really doesn't use federal money to perform abortions, then they need to separate it completely by creating another entity to perform the abortions. Then give PP more money for their other services. Would be completely fine with that. The reality is that there is always going to be someone doing abortions as long as it is legal. I just don't want my tax dollars tacitly supporting it. Right now the federal money props up the organization so it can be an abortion provider. Let the abortions rest on their own laurels, and allow PP (or some other organization) to provide actual health services to females. Would protect PP from being embroiled in this type of political upheaval.

Federal money cannot, by law, be used to fund abortions at Planned Parenthood. It's a law. Please, please acknowledge this fact.

 

[PhDeac]

Completely on board with this. If PP really doesn't use federal money to perform abortions, then they need to separate it completely by creating another entity to perform the abortions. Then give PP more money for their other services. Would be completely fine with that. The reality is that there is always going to be someone doing abortions as long as it is legal. I just don't want my tax dollars tacitly supporting it. Right now the federal money props up the organization so it can be an abortion provider. Let the abortions rest on their own laurels, and allow PP (or some other organization) to provide actual health services to females. Would protect PP from being embroiled in this type of political upheaval.

So then?

Wrangor, what if Planned Parenthood split off into two organizations. "Planned Parenthood Health Services" only handled women's health. "Planned Parenthood Pre-Natal Services" only dealt with pregnant women. Would you be in favor of federal funding for Planned Parenthood Health Services?

 

[Wrangor]

OK. We could just compare 300k abortions to numbers of STD tests, PAP smear, counseling services, breast exams, men's health visits. That is not so misleading. And even if other services are rolled into abortion services and we recouple the numbers, it's still a small portion of what they actually do.

And If I go to a car shop and have my timing belt replaced they are going to charge me for shop rags, labor, a new water pump, and several other miscellaneous items. But the reason I went to the shop was to have my timing belt replaced. IF I have 10 items performed while I am there to have my timing belt replaced I am going to call BS on anyone that tells me that my timing belt was only 10% of the reason I was at the shop, or that it is 10% Of the services performed. It was 100% of the reason I was there, the other items are nice, but they aren't why I came. Abortion certainly isn't 93% of the services performed but it is a heck of a lot more than 3% of the reason for PP existence. You know that, you are just being obtuse.

 

[deacvision7]

So the 3% number and the 93% number are intentionally misleading.

The 3% number is apparently misleading by 0.2%.

But that is even saying it is misleading by too much.

If the numbers are accurate, and even the stupid video doesn't dispute them, so I feel they are good to use.

Then 327,166 of the services performed were for abortions.

348,869 of the services were performed for anything related to pregnancies what-so-ever.


348,869 - 327,166 = 21,703. 21,703 pregnancy related services were given outside of abortion.

That is two-tenths of 1% of all services performed by Planned Parenthood in the year given by the video.

 

[Wrangor]

Federal money cannot, by law, be used to fund abortions at Planned Parenthood. It's a law. Please, please acknowledge this fact.

I acknowledge it. Now please acknowledge that you understand how federal money could prop up an organization to allow them to spend their donation money to fund abortions. If I have to actually explain that to you I will be very disappointed.

 

[deacvision7]

I am skirting the issue? How so? I am defending an all on liberal attack right now. Skirting the issue would have not been responding to your drivel.
.

SUCH AN E-MARTYR!

 

[Wrangor]

So then?

Didn't see that post above. YES. I would fully support funding a PP Health Service organization. That is what I have been saying all along. I don't care if is named PP HEalth Service or PHDeac's big center for helping women to not die. I just don't think the PP services that have been exposed, or any abortions services to be associated with federal money (just like they are not supposed to in the first place). IF PP truly isn't using the federal funds to prop up their abortions services then this should be no big deal. Separate the organizations and lets roll.

 

[TownieDeac]

I acknowledge it. Now please acknowledge that you understand how federal money could prop up an organization to allow them to spend their donation money to fund abortions. If I have to actually explain that to you I will be very disappointed.

I acknowledge that. Glad we're in the same place.