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Manning's lineups and subs

If Collins hits a three, I bet 22fan would beat off for days.
 
MichDeac25 said:
I like all our freshmen and think Manning has a great eye. But for all the rankings-nuts on these boards, the ranking of the freshmen by recruiting rankings across the board was 1) Moore; 2) Crawford; 3) Collins. Crawford has played a lot b/c of the injuries and suspensions and has done well. But in terms of a player who is ready to go from day 1, that's Collins, the lowest rated player in the class by all recruiting "gurus."
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The difference in readiness was also pretty well-established by all the "gurus", so your weird disdain for them in this post is confusing.
 
RedSoxFaithful said:
The difference in readiness was also pretty well-established by all the "gurus", so your weird disdain for them in this post is confusing.
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We'll disagree on that. John Collins wasn't rated a 3-star recruit (#230 player in class, #56 best PF, and #26 recruit in FL) because it was expected that he would come in and look like the best recruit in WF's class.
 
Pretty much everyone knew Collins was going to contribute more as a freshman than Doral Moore.
 
MichDeac25 said:
We'll disagree on that. John Collins wasn't rated a 3-star recruit (#230 player in class, #56 best PF, and #26 recruit in FL) because it was expected that he would come in and look like the best recruit in the class.
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He hasn't looked like the best recruit in the class. He's looked very effective in 30 minutes of floor time against shit competition. If you think he's looked better than Crawford (or that he would look as good as Crawford has with identical playing time), you're out of your mind.

It was always a point of the JC scouting reports that he was a college-ready, high floor recruit. It was also a point of the Doral reports that he was the opposite. Why is this so hard to understand?
 
RedSoxFaithful said:
He hasn't looked like the best recruit in the class. He's looked very effective in 30 minutes of floor time against shit competition. If you think he's looked better than Crawford (or that he would look as good as Crawford has with identical playing time), you're out of your mind.

It was always a point of the JC scouting reports that he was a college-ready, high floor recruit. It was also a point of the Doral reports that he was the opposite. Why is this so hard to understand?
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Did you not read the above-listed rankings for him? Guys who are 3-star recruits are not projected to contribute this quickly at the collegiate level. If his current production continues, he's out playing his ranking, no question. If you are conceding that Collins was expected to contribute more quickly at the collegiate level than Moore, to what do you attribute the differential in recruiting rankings between them?
 
The gurus missed on Collins. He's a top 75-100 talent like Crawford. He can play on an ACC level. That's all that matters .
 
FckVwls said:
Pretty much everyone knew Collins was going to contribute more as a freshman than Doral Moore.
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I agree. I feel like this was a pretty common expectation here. Doral has a higher ceiling, and hence a higher ranking, but everyone expected Collins to contribute more than Doral early on.
 
MichDeac25 said:
We'll disagree on that. John Collins wasn't rated a 3-star recruit (#230 player in class, #56 best PF, and #26 recruit in FL) because it was expected that he would come in and look like the best recruit in WF's class.
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His 247 composite ranking was skewed down by a couple sites having him as unranked. In their final rankings, Scout had him as the 25th best PF and ESPN had him as a 4-star and the 38th best PF. So the major recruiting sites had him as a consensus 120-150 range. Much different than 230. Still, if he keeps playing like he is, he will easily outperform those rankings as well. Also, he may have grown an inch or two in the past year. I remember thinking he as 6'8, 6'9 but he looks to be a legit 6'10 with a huge wingspan.
 
wfu22fan said:
The gurus missed on Collins. He's a top 75-100 talent like Crawford. He can play on an ACC level. That's all that matters .
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he can play on the college level. jury is still out about acc level. however, i am cautiously optimistic which is about all i am capable of at this point thanks to ronnie.
 
MichDeac25 said:
Did you not read the above-listed rankings for him? Guys who are 3-star recruits are not projected to contribute this quickly at the collegiate level. If his current production continues, he's out playing his ranking, no question. If you are conceding that Collins was expected to contribute more quickly at the collegiate level than Moore, to what do you attribute the differential in recruiting rankings between them?
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Is this post serious? I feel like I'm having a stroke.

1.) Yes, I read your "above-listed rankings," which are, unsurprisingly, unsourced, and incorrect on a micro level. Almost nobody who ranked Collins ranked him that low.

2.) Recruiting rankings are not based entirely on readiness to contribute. I attribute the difference in rankings between Collins, who was expected to be ready early in his freshman season, and Moore, who was not expected to be ready early in his freshman season, to things like size and potential, both of which lend a strong, strong edge to Moore.

3.) Yes, if his current production continues, he will have outperformed his ranking. The same goes for Crawford! Small sample sizes are fun.

3.) Again, he has played thirty-five (35) minutes against generally poor competition. He has had issues turning the ball over. We also have mixed reports (in some cases, horrendous reports) on his defense, and he's accumulated 5 fouls in 35 minutes. We also have no idea how his high-energy play so far would translate to a prolonged 30-35 minute appearance. I like Collins a lot-- really, I do-- but let's pump the brakes a bit before anointing him the savior of the program. He has put up some gaudy point and rebound numbers. That's it, so far.

4.) Remember Aaron Rountree? He went through a 4 game, 76 minute stretch early in his freshman season where he averaged (per 35 minutes, so that we can compare directly with Collins) 14.3 points (on 75% shooting!), 8.3 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 6.0 blocks, 3.7 steals, 4.1 fouls, and just 1.8 turnovers. I would argue that he was more productive in that four game stretch, especially on the defensive end of the floor, than Collins has been so far. Am I cherry picking? Sure! Small sample sizes sure are fun, though!

06deacon said:
If Collins hits a three, I bet 22fan would beat off for days.
wfu22fan said:
Gonna do that anyway...
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5.) okay so this is weird
 
He isn't an inevitable bust like over half the 6'9-7'0 guys we've recruited over the years.
 
Like I said, I like Collins a lot. I do think he's deserving of more minutes-- if it were me, as I said earlier in the thread, I'd have him at ~25 minutes/game, eating into TVH and O'Brien's minutes. I just don't think it should be a shock when his production level drops over sustained appearances, or when some of his currently-veiled flaws are exposed.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
Can we all just agree to be happy that John Collins is a Deac?
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