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Manning's lineups and subs

RedSoxFaithful said:
Is this post serious? I feel like I'm having a stroke.

1.) Yes, I read your "above-listed rankings," which are, unsurprisingly, unsourced, and incorrect on a micro level. Almost nobody who ranked Collins ranked him that low.

2.) Recruiting rankings are not based entirely on readiness to contribute. I attribute the difference in rankings between Collins, who was expected to be ready early in his freshman season, and Moore, who was not expected to be ready early in his freshman season, to things like size and potential, both of which lend a strong, strong edge to Moore.

3.) Yes, if his current production continues, he will have outperformed his ranking. The same goes for Crawford! Small sample sizes are fun.

3.) Again, he has played thirty-five (35) minutes against generally poor competition. He has had issues turning the ball over. We also have mixed reports (in some cases, horrendous reports) on his defense, and he's accumulated 5 fouls in 35 minutes. We also have no idea how his high-energy play so far would translate to a prolonged 30-35 minute appearance. I like Collins a lot-- really, I do-- but let's pump the brakes a bit before anointing him the savior of the program. He has put up some gaudy point and rebound numbers. That's it, so far.

4.) Remember Aaron Rountree? He went through a 4 game, 76 minute stretch early in his freshman season where he averaged (per 35 minutes, so that we can compare directly with Collins) 14.3 points (on 75% shooting!), 8.3 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 6.0 blocks, 3.7 steals, 4.1 fouls, and just 1.8 turnovers. I would argue that he was more productive in that four game stretch, especially on the defensive end of the floor, than Collins has been so far. Am I cherry picking? Sure! Small sample sizes sure are fun, though!



5.) okay so this is weird
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The rankings I listed are taken straight from 247 sports composite numbers. At least you concede that recruiting rankings are sometimes based on things like size, even if the player isn't producing at that level to justify the ranking in high school. (Keep this in mind for B-Chill.) However, at 6'9-6'10, Collins has more than enough size to be a potent PF. I was concerned that he was actually 6'7 playing a PF position and that was why his rankings were lower. However, that wasn't the case. He was the state's 4A player of the year and still was never ranked within the top 15 of Florida players by 247 or ESPN. Doral Moore does indeed have great size and athletic ability, which equals potential. I think he'll be great. But I imagine in time, there are going to be a lot of other players ranked ahead of John Collins that won't have produced on his level.

If you're going to compare Aaron Rountree's ability to John Collins' ability, that tells me you don't really know basketball, which is probably why you rely so heavily on recruiting rankings to tell you what players should perform. Rountree never passed the eye test for someone that was going to be a great college player.

Recruiting rankings are okay, but they're not infallible.
 
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John Ruskin said:
I'm here for you creamy. A lesser man would have killed himself after all of those misplaced #vibes

a lesser man, a lesser man, creamygoodness
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Thank you, Johnny. I wouldn't be here without the care and support of my true friends on these very boards.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Once again, and some agree with me, I think Dinos should and will see his minutes decline as the year goes on. His defense is really, really bad, and it's not just on-ball, it's in rotations, and his lateral foot speed is just not where it needs to be. I think Dinos, Thomas, and Collins can all be on the court at the same time, but it doesn't seem like Manning likes going with a three big look.
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We did have that look out there IIRC for a few minutes. Went to a zone. +1 in the +/-

I'd like to see more of it. I think it would mask some of Dinos defensive deficiencies if he's on the wing in a zone. And seems like Collins can get out to guard the perimeter as well with his length.
 
I'm in the "not gonna freak out about Manning's substitutions" camp until we are at full strength. I agree the minutes to van horn are baffling, but it does make me think there is something else at play. I'm not real high on McClinton (he can thank Crawford for his fast start against Richmond - those passes were on a rope...), but is he a better option than van Horn? Um, yes. There's no good basketball explanation for it, I think everyone can agree. So either the coach is blind or there is something else factoring into the decision..

At least two of Crawford's turn overs down the stretch were simply passes that hit Dinos in the face..

I'm extremely high on Crawford.. I think the combination of his vision and Collins' hands will bode well for us.

Our defense is simply not good enough.
 
TwentyONE said:
I'm in the "not gonna freak out about Manning's substitutions" camp until we are at full strength. I agree the minutes to van horn are baffling, but it does make me think there is something else at play. I'm not real high on McClinton (he can thank Crawford for his fast start against Richmond - those passes were on a rope...), but is he a better option than van Horn? Um, yes. There's no good basketball explanation for it, I think everyone can agree. So either the coach is blind or there is something else factoring into the decision..

At least two of Crawford's turn overs down the stretch were simply passes that hit Dinos in the face..

I'm extremely high on Crawford.. I think the combination of his vision and Collins' hands will bode well for us.

Our defense is simply not good enough.
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McClinton scored 12 points to VanHorn's zero in that last game - and they had identical +/- stats. And that includes VanHorn being on the floor during the final Richmond run. So up to that point the team performed better with VanHorn scoring nothing than with McClinton scoring 12. Obviously a lot of factors at play there but it's pretty suspicious.
 
TwentyONE said:
I'm in the "not gonna freak out about Manning's substitutions" camp until we are at full strength. I agree the minutes to van horn are baffling, but it does make me think there is something else at play.
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The thing is, his substitution patterns were a major issue many had last year, and they are only more bizarre this season.
 
Summary:

-These substitution patterns are awful!
-Yes, but that's something that is so easily changed that either (1) DM is an idiot or (2) there's some reasoning (perhaps long-term) behind them.
-But they're so visibly bad!
-Well, yeah, that's what makes it weird that it would continue if there wasn't some reasoning behind them.
-What's the reasoning?
-I don't know. Something about wanting the team to get used to playing in certain conceptual lineups, even if the pieces aren't all currently available? Something about trying to teach certain lessons early? I'm not a basketball coach and I'm not DM, so I couldn't tell you.
-But they're so bad.

rinse and repeat, add dashes of which freshman is going to be the program savior
 
SpringChicken said:
Summary:

-These substitution patterns are awful!
-Yes, but that's something that is so easily changed that either (1) DM is an idiot or (2) there's some reasoning (perhaps long-term) behind them.
-But they're so visibly bad!
-Well, yeah, that's what makes it weird that it would continue if there wasn't some reasoning behind them.
-What's the reasoning?
-I don't know. Something about wanting the team to get used to playing in certain conceptual lineups, even if the pieces aren't all currently available? Something about trying to teach certain lessons early? I'm not a basketball coach and I'm not DM, so I couldn't tell you.
-But they're so bad.

rinse and repeat, add dashes of which freshman is going to be the program savior
Click to expand...

<3
 
TwentyONE said:
I'm in the "not gonna freak out about Manning's substitutions" camp until we are at full strength. I agree the minutes to van horn are baffling, but it does make me think there is something else at play. I'm not real high on McClinton (he can thank Crawford for his fast start against Richmond - those passes were on a rope...), but is he a better option than van Horn? Um, yes. There's no good basketball explanation for it, I think everyone can agree. So either the coach is blind or there is something else factoring into the decision..

At least two of Crawford's turn overs down the stretch were simply passes that hit Dinos in the face..

I'm extremely high on Crawford.. I think the combination of his vision and Collins' hands will bode well for us.

Our defense is simply not good enough.
Click to expand...

I'm in this camp simply because it's something that seems pretty easy to get better at and I suspect that as Manning gains experience he will get better at it. If he hasn't shown any progress by the end of the season then I'll be worried.

I'm more worried about Manning's ability to match his defensive game plan to his personnel. If you are going to play Dinos heavy minutes you need a game plan to hide his defensive liabilities. Richmond's entire comeback was basically a series of pick and rolls with whoever Dinos was guarding as the screener. The coaching staff seemed entirely unprepared to handle it.
 
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