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Shooting at an Orlando Gay Night Club

Milhouse said:
it's a bunch of fables just like every other religion that has ever existed
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And it would miss the point entirely to ask if a fable were "true," right? I mean, if you walk away from Aesop wondering whether a mouse actually removed a splinter from a lion's paw, something has gone horribly wrong.
 
Junebug said:
I don't know how BKF's urination habits are relevant to the discussion, but he's right that someone who thinks republicans' views on the gays and women are similar to those of the Muslim world isn't worth taking seriously on the subject.
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You don't believe that lawmakers on the right referred to homosexuality as an abomination? That a former 'pub preisdential candidate suggested that it was good for Christians if Muslims and gays killed each other? That the founder of a college that is a stopping point for 'pub presidential candidates blamed the gays for natural disasters?

I mean, Ted Cruz was on stage last year with a guy who advocated killing homosexuals.

I doubt that is what you believe, but the evidence is there.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Your understanding of Christianity seems to be more nuanced than the understanding of most mainstream Christians. Basically in that you don't actually believe most of the bible as some sort of factual historical account.
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I haven't really looked at the data, but I would bet this approach is more common than you think. I would bet, for example, that most American Christians don't believe that Jonah survived 3 days in the belly of a whale.
 
Junebug said:
I haven't really looked at the data, but I would bet this approach is more common than you think. I would bet, for example, that most American Christians don't believe that Jonah survived 3 days in the belly of a whale.
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If it is not over 50%, it is close to it.
 
DeaconSig said:
You don't believe that lawmakers on the right referred to homosexuality as an abomination? That a former 'pub preisdential candidate suggested that it was good for Christians if Muslims and gays killed each other? That the founder of a college that is a stopping point for 'pub presidential candidates blamed the gays for natural disasters?

I mean, Ted Cruz was on stage last year with a guy who advocated killing homosexuals.

I doubt that is what you believe, but the evidence is there.
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There is no doubt there are fringe groups that think that way. That's not what Mystery Man said. He said the republican "party."
 
the fact that people believe they're fables or not fables is less important than their belief that that particular Rulebook is more valid than the other Rulebooks.
 
Seems like most spiritual traditions approach the subject obliquely, through symbolic language. Think of some of the Native American stories. I don't think they're dumb or deserving of belittling, mockery. I think the outsiders whose default is to mock what they fail to grasp are usually more deserving of mockery. Not to say Christians can't be criticized, or religion can't be criticized- but the hardcore atheists are not really interested in finding out where any Christian is coming from. It's one size fits all, they're all dumb, childish, followers of fairy tales. Which is ridiculous. I'm agnostic, I can't belong to any organized religion, but I'll listen to what they have to say. And what most Christians have to say is pretty moderate, sensible, good stuff to my ears. I know there are problematic aspects of the Bible, but how Christians choose to incorporate it into their lives, that's what matters. And I don't see most of them protesting at gay funerals.
 
Junebug said:
There is no doubt there are fringe groups that think that way. That's not what Mystery Man said. He said the republican "party."
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The guy that came in second in the GOP presidential primary represents a large segment within the "party."
 
Junebug said:
I haven't really looked at the data, but I would bet this approach is more common than you think. I would bet, for example, that most American Christians don't believe that Jonah survived 3 days in the belly of a whale.
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I was talking in more general than a specific old testament fable. You seem to not believe (at least in the traditional sense) some of the doctrinal foundations of Christianity, like the divinity of Jesus.
 
Junebug said:
I'm surprised it's not higher, but perhaps I'm mispercieving because almost all of my friends who are Christians are also highly educated.
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It would be close to 90% at my church, but my guess is mine is similar to yours. My mother-in-law goes to a church of
God and the belief is probably 90% the other way.
 
This thread has taken an odd turn. Re: Jonah - not aware of any polling on the historic truthiness of Jonah and his cetacean companion, but almost half of all Americans believe in young-earth creationism. That position can only be supported by a belief that the Bible, or at least most of it, is literally historically true and actually happened. Extrapolating, i would bet money that a poll of American, or at least of American Christians, would find similar levels of credence in a prophet taking a Mediterranean cruise on the SS Baleen.
 
but what if gays should be executed and women in burkas? the only thing you have going for you is that you grew up in the US with a culture steeped in christian traditions. do you really feel open minded enough to evaluate all religions equally?

and if your answer is "i don't need the bible to tell me not to murder gay people" well, then I have a few more questions.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I was talking in more general than a specific old testament fable. You seem to not believe (at least in the traditional sense) some of the doctrinal foundations of Christianity, like the divinity of Jesus.
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You once said you understood about half of what I wrote regarding religion. It seems like you got a lot more than you let on.

As to your point, I haven't done any polling on this either, but I'm confident you are correct that most Christians (and maybe even the vast majority) don't view the bible's claims regarding the divinity of Jesus as myth, or at least not as myth in the same way they view the creation and Jonah stories as myth.
 
DeaconSig said:
It would be close to 90% at my church, but my guess is mine is similar to yours. My mother-in-law goes to a church of
God and the belief is probably 90% the other way.
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Yeah, I'm also forgetting that many people who were raised in a Christian household but objected to Christianity because of things like the Jonah story probably didn't dig deeper and now just identify as non-Christian.
 
TuffaloDeac10 said:
He campaigned with a pastor who holds the former position
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Huckabee and Jindal also appeared with the same Pastor. Had Cruz or Huckabee been the nominee, McCrory, Kim Davis, and Roy Moore would have been convention speakers. GOP's policy positions are a nightmare and it's bizarre they think that Orlando is a decades long make up call to the LGBT community.

Being less LGBT hostile than ISIS isn't remotely the same thing as being respectful, supportive, and inclusive. GOP has deliberately marginalized gays since at least DADT in the early '90s. It's not like the LGBT community is unaware of that. But somehow a massacre by a deeply closeted Muslim will suddenly drive LGBT to embrace a Muslim ban, less restrictive gun laws, and morph into loyal GOP voters?!?
 
oh, Alabamans

Alabama county refuses to lower flag to honor Orlando shooting victims

Washington (CNN)Alabama county officials refused to lower flags to half-staff to honor the victims of the Orlando mass shooting this week even after President Barack Obama and Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley ordered flags to be lowered.

Citing the U.S. Flag Code, Baldwin County Commissioner Tucker Dorsey told CNN affiliate WPMI that while his "heart certainly goes out to the victims and their families," the incident "doesn't meet the test of the reason for the flag to be lowered."

Dorsey added that the code states that the flag is to be lowered on Memorial Day and to commemorate the deaths of government officials.

In a Facebook post published Tuesday, Dorsey wrote that Baldwin County also didn't lower the flags after the Paris terror attacks last November and the shooting in San Bernardino, California last December by a married couple who pledged allegiance to ISIS.

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Obama ordered the flags to be flown at half-staff Sunday following the mass shooting at Pulse gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, early Sunday that left 49 dead and 53 injured.
"I realize that the President and Governor may make the order, but I believe and interpret their order inconsistent with the adopted flag code," Dorsey told the NY Daily News.
The Orlando tragedy is the worst mass shooting in U.S. history.
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