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Game, Set, Match (WaPo's Grab Them By The Pussy Tape)

It's too bad that one outlandish audio tape damaged an otherwise mild-mannered, even-tempered, and well-run campaign.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Yeah, that's total bullshit. The only thing that changed was the party of the person being accused. Way back 20+ years ago (apparently in the dark ages before Democrats knew they should be opposed to sexual assault, to hear it told), Congressional Democrats grilled RJ's uncle for alleging asking Anita Hill an inappropriate question. Litters of kittens were had about far, far less than Bill Clinton was accused of. Just own up the shillage and move on.
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There's no way Clarence Thomas would be on the Supreme Court today, rightly or wrongly. Times have changed dramatically in this area - just look at how these stories play out in popular culture now (Bill Cosby is a great example - it's not like the stuff that finally took him down was anything new, our attitudes towards it just changed).

Yes, there is shillage (as there is with anything in politics) - but that's an easy to excuse to ignore the seismic change in our cultural attitudes towards these kinds of things, and the rapidly growing influence of the female vote in American politics over the past couple of decades. Bill Clinton would get destroyed in the 2016 presidental race.

And as for me personally? I voted fro GWB in 2000 (the first presidential election I could vote in) and even worked on his campaign - in large part because the constant scandals of the Clinton White House were so offensive. I'm definitely not a Bill Clinton supporter by any stretch of the imagination.
 
ChrisL68 said:
The allegations I remember against Clinton when he was running was that he had affairs. That he was being a horndog. The more serious allegations came around impeachment time.

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They had been out there for a while, they just weren't covered heavily or treated separately from the affairs (at the time the line between "affair" and "sexual assault" for powerful men was a lot blurrier and the press largely just avoided all of it).
 
And as for party based "shillage" - the two most famous presidential candidates to be brought down by sexual misdeeds are both Dems (Gary Hart in '88 and John Edwards in '08). The national press tore both of them apart, and rightly.
 
vadimivich said:
They had been out there for a while, they just weren't covered heavily or treated separately from the affairs (at the time the line between "affair" and "sexual assault" for powerful men was a lot blurrier and the press largely just avoided all of it).
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but at that point those stories were just rumors there was no independent verification of any sort

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The conventional wisdom in 92 was that Clinton was going to be brought down by the affair allegations. At the end of the day it's up to the voters and they didn't think it was that big of a deal

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Junebug said:
Probably because the denials from the Clinton camp were so adamant and there wasn't any hard evidence until Lewinsky's dress.
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Yes if Clinton was on video tape talking about how he could go up and grab a Woman by her pussy because he was a governor, that certainly would have been the end of his campaign.

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Junebug said:
But how could Hart have been brought down in '88 when we didn't think it was wrong back then?
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The Hart one is an odd case - I was only 8 so I don't have much memory of it - but reading about it seems more that it was the fact he blatantly challenged the press to find something on him, and so they did.

Also, like Trump, there was some hard evidence that made for great newspaper and TV copy (Trump has the Billy Bush audio, Hart had photos with Donna Ross on his lap and on that yacht). Clinton never had anything like that capture the national attention or to galvanize the accusations into something tangible.
 
Junebug said:
Probably because the denials from the Clinton camp were so adamant and there wasn't any hard evidence until Lewinsky's dress.
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There's definitely an evidence difference. The Trump tape is him describing sexual assault in his own words.

Clinton's issues were he said / she said, iirc. I was 16 in '92, so I wasn't paying total attention.

What makes the current Trump stories worse than he said / she said is they're defended and supported by his own words.
 
And again this is just the icing on the awfulness cake that has been Trump's entire candidacy.

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I voted for dole in 96. The ridiculous impeachment proceedings turned me off from the right. They have scandal envy to this day.

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Two-thirds of the people are going to feel like the playing field was tilted to favor Hillary. On one side Bernie got enough of the popular vote to expose the DNC and it's super delegate system. Its only going to get worse after Trump is out of the way and people take a harder look at the WikiLeaks emails. It's also possible, even likely, that foreign adversaries have information that completely compromises her ability to represent the best interest of our country. Is there any question who she will put first if faced with such a scenario? On the other side, it appears the FBI played it soft on the handling of classified information on an unauthorized private server while the media seems to have a double-standard when it comes to outrage over sexual assault. In short, the majority of the country is going to feel somewhat disenfranchised, with at least 30% blue-in-the-face pissed-off.

Hillary does not even come close to having the leadership skills to bring us back together. We can only hope she rises to the occasion if faced with a real crisis but there's very little in her past to indicate she's more than a highly skilled politician with a severe lack of gravitas. The external conditions for the next president are going to be harsh. I doubt Hillary will put aside reelection aspirations and make any attempt to heal the country. Sadly, it looks like things are going to get much worse before there's any chance of improvement. The anger in the air is beginning to feel like 1968 except there are a lot more people feeling angry. Good luck Ms. President!
 
Lol the right wing has no interest in being brought back together. Look at Obama.

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aocs3281 said:
Two-thirds of the people are going to feel like the playing field was tilted to favor Hillary. On one side Bernie got enough of the popular vote to expose the DNC and it's super delegate system. Its only going to get worse after Trump is out of the way and people take a harder look at the WikiLeaks emails. It's also possible, even likely, that foreign adversaries have information that completely compromises her ability to represent the best interest of our country. Is there any question who she will put first if faced with such a scenario? On the other side, it appears the FBI played it soft on the handling of classified information on an unauthorized private server while the media seems to have a double-standard when it comes to outrage over sexual assault. In short, the majority of the country is going to feel somewhat disenfranchised, with at least 30% blue-in-the-face pissed-off.

Hillary does not even come close to having the leadership skills to bring us back together. We can only hope she rises to the occasion if faced with a real crisis but there's very little in her past to indicate she's more than a highly skilled politician with a severe lack of gravitas. The external conditions for the next president are going to be harsh. I doubt Hillary will put aside reelection aspirations and make any attempt to heal the country. Sadly, it looks like things are going to get much worse before there's any chance of improvement. The anger in the air is beginning to feel like 1968 except there are a lot more people feeling angry. Good luck Ms. President!
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The us v. them conspiracy truthiness is what matched the (alt)right with Trump. Keep up that rhetoric. It has led to great places.
 
aocs3281 said:
Two-thirds of the people are going to feel like the playing field was tilted to favor Hillary. On one side Bernie got enough of the popular vote to expose the DNC and it's super delegate system. Its only going to get worse after Trump is out of the way and people take a harder look at the WikiLeaks emails. It's also possible, even likely, that foreign adversaries have information that completely compromises her ability to represent the best interest of our country. Is there any question who she will put first if faced with such a scenario? On the other side, it appears the FBI played it soft on the handling of classified information on an unauthorized private server while the media seems to have a double-standard when it comes to outrage over sexual assault. In short, the majority of the country is going to feel somewhat disenfranchised, with at least 30% blue-in-the-face pissed-off.

Hillary does not even come close to having the leadership skills to bring us back together. We can only hope she rises to the occasion if faced with a real crisis but there's very little in her past to indicate she's more than a highly skilled politician with a severe lack of gravitas. The external conditions for the next president are going to be harsh. I doubt Hillary will put aside reelection aspirations and make any attempt to heal the country. Sadly, it looks like things are going to get much worse before there's any chance of improvement. The anger in the air is beginning to feel like 1968 except there are a lot more people feeling angry. Good luck Ms. President!
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Yeah I am sure the Trump followers are just going to dutifully fall in line behind Ryan and the establishment after this beat down. Pubs need to get their house in order before calling on Dems to unite America. Thanks Obama!
 
Junebug said:
You mean the way Obama rammed the stimulus and the ACA down republicans' throats? Of course they didn't want to compromise with him. He didn't with them.

I actually think that Hillary has the potential to be more adept at that than Obama. Her long history of life in partisan politics doesn't help, for sure, but she's unprincipled enough that it could work.
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Yes the right was certainly providing indications that they were coming to the table to provide Obama with a legislative accomplishment. Lol

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Junebug said:
You mean the way Obama rammed the stimulus and the ACA down republicans' throats? Of course they didn't want to compromise with him. He didn't with them.

I actually think that Hillary has the potential to be more adept at that than Obama. Her long history of life in partisan politics doesn't help, for sure, but she's unprincipled enough that it could work.
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Obama tried and tried to get Republican input. They didn't play ball so he had to figure out another way. That's been the theme of the entire campaign. This era will be remembered for Republicans refusing to work with the first black President then nominating the leader of the birther movement to replace him.

As far as affairs, we can specifically point to Hart and Edwards who were damaged by their affairs. Which Republicans were damaged by their affairs?
 
PhDeac said:
Obama tried and tried to get Republican input. They didn't play ball so he had to figure out another way. That's been the theme of the entire campaign. This era will be remembered for Republicans refusing to work with the first black President then nominating the leader of the birther movement to replace him.

As far as affairs, we can specifically point to Hart and Edwards who were damaged by their affairs. Which Republicans were damaged by their affairs?
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The gay ones.
 
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