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Muslim ban already having effect

Junebug said:
Well, I do know. The priority in the EO applies to every member of a "minority" religion that is being persecuted. In the ME, that would include all non-Muslims (i.e., Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, whatever). In areas outside of the ME it could include (gasp!) Muslims.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
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What countries do we currently take a bunch of persecuted Muslims from? While you're right on paper, that's not how the world works.
 
MysteryMen said:
What countries do we currently take a bunch of persecuted Muslims from? While you're right on paper, that's not how the world works.
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I believe the more relevant question to start with is whether there are countries where there are a bunch of persecuted Muslims (based on their religion) trying to move here?
 
Junebug said:
First, the language is not limited to Christians. Although it certainly excludes Muslims, it would be strange to say that Muslims are being persecuted because of their religion in these countries. Second, the priority is not just for religious minorities. Instead, the minority must be persecuted on the basis of their religion.

It's a great talking point to call it a Christian priority, just like it is a great talking point to call it a Mooslim ban, but, as usual, the truth is more complex than a talking point.
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Complex or ambiguous? Complexity means that there can be clarity through interpretation. The Obama-era policy rightfully alluded to on here, I would argue, is complex. Ambiguity requires a trust that we can both agree that Donald Trump has not earned.
 
Pope_Francis_washes_the_feet_of_migrants_and_refugees_during_Holy_Thursday_Mass_March_24_2016_Credit_LOsservatore_Romano_CNA.jpg
 
DeacMan said:
I believe the more relevant question to start with is whether there are countries where there are a bunch of persecuted Muslims (based on their religion) trying to move here?
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The better questions is do these people condone having sex with kids?
 
i wonder how much the "jobs!" president has cost our economy in the few days this travel executive order has been in effect? Best believe a number of these detainees are traveling for business purposes, and not some piddly shit either.
 
dmcheatw said:
i wonder how much the "jobs!" president has cost our economy in the few days this travel executive order has been in effect? Best believe a number of these detainees are traveling for business purposes, and not some piddly shit either.
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The demand for tsa agents has gone way up


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dmcheatw said:
i wonder how much the "jobs!" president has cost our economy in the few days this travel executive order has been in effect? Best believe a number of these detainees are traveling for business purposes, and not some piddly shit either.
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Bingo. There's a reason the tech industry is up in arms over this. Google literally has employees who can no longer enter the US. Ditto for the education sector.

There is probably no way to measure the impact but keep this shit up (all of the drama) and companies will begin to question why they should stay here. Especially if they are a tweet away from King Trump sending their stock price into a nosedive.

Businesses like stability. Trump's first 10 days have been the opposite.
 
Isn't there a legal term for when a law has an obvious intention even if that intention isn't stated in the law?
 
Newenglanddeac said:
Bingo. There's a reason the tech industry is up in arms over this. Google literally has employees who can no longer enter the US. Ditto for the education sector.

There is probably no way to measure the impact but keep this shit up (all of the drama) and companies will begin to question why they should stay here. Especially if they are a tweet away from King Trump sending their stock price into a nosedive.

Businesses like stability. Trump's first 10 days have been the opposite.
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You are jumping the shark a bit here. The number of engineers working in the United States from Somalia, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Sudan, Iraq and Iran is not what has tech. execs. clamoring. They are perhaps concerned the order might be extended to, say, India or Pakistan.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Isn't there a legal term for when a law has an obvious intention even if that intention isn't stated in the law?
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You are thinking of the concept of disparate impact of a facially neutral law. Part of 14th Amendment analysis (text of which applies to "citizens").
 
there will be a "Brain Drain" in this country because of this. In the 30's the U.S. turned down the vast majority of immigrants from europe, at an incalculable cost to this nation, and one of those stains never talked about in a U.S. history textbook. those we did let in were some of the leading academics, scientists, theorists, polymaths, thinkers, innovators and inventors. We got albert einstein who changed physics forever, we won the space race because of von Braun, we cracked enigma and jn-25 because of help from german and japanese nationals.

native americans aside, immigration to this country has followed a clear pattern. Yes some initial hardship and competition for jobs, sending money out of the country, etc. but within a generation that's been more than made up for, well more. Plus we always make immigrants do the bitch work for fractions of the cost of hiring white people, take all the credit, and find that the offspring of immigrants then still double down on our nation.

100 days or ~1450 days, it is civic responsibility, it is patriotic duty, to FIGHT this shit, because nations rise and fall, but this time there's a lot more on the line than just the fate of a nation. trump wins, or the world loses.
 
palmab03 said:
I don't know Canada's stats, but I know the Germans are pissed.

Stringent process? If only we had a caring President to up and change the rules for the past 5 years. Seems like Trump was able to change the rules rather quickly in just under a week.
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Germany didn't really get to vet these refugees before they settled there. Again, it's an apples and oranges comparison. Come up with an argument that doesn't involve what's going on in Europe.
 
dmcheatw said:
there will be a "Brain Drain" in this country because of this. In the 30's the U.S. turned down the vast majority of immigrants from europe, at an incalculable cost to this nation, and one of those stains never talked about in a U.S. history textbook. those we did let in were some of the leading academics, scientists, theorists, polymaths, thinkers, innovators and inventors. We got albert einstein who changed physics forever, we won the space race because of von Braun, we cracked enigma and jn-25 because of help from german and japanese nationals.

native americans aside, immigration to this country has followed a clear pattern. Yes some initial hardship and competition for jobs, sending money out of the country, etc. but within a generation that's been more than made up for, well more. Plus we always make immigrants do the bitch work for fractions of the cost of hiring white people, take all the credit, and find that the offspring of immigrants then still double down on our nation.

100 days or ~1450 days, it is civic responsibility, it is patriotic duty, to FIGHT this shit, because nations rise and fall, but this time there's a lot more on the line than just the fate of a nation. trump wins, or the world loses.
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Not so much. Native Americans didn't immigrate. They were already here. Slaves clearly didn't follow this pattern.
 
DeacMan said:
I believe the more relevant question to start with is whether there are countries where there are a bunch of persecuted Muslims (based on their religion) trying to move here?
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Syria? Al-Assad is killing all sorts of Sunnis, based at least in part on their religion. So unless the Trump EO makes distinctions between Sunni/Shia in determining what a religious minority is (doubtful because (1) he probably doesn't even know the difference, and (2) he's made it clear that the purpose is to benefit Christians), then it's giving preference to the Christians who are persecuted for their religion as opposed to Sunnis.
 
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