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John Collins and the draft

jaybone said:
Totally disagree. On two of your three points.

1. 22 okay. And for what it is worth, I haven't seen a second of his summer league play. I have no idea what he is doing, this is all last season observation.

2. Not entirely fair to count Schroeder's first 4 years as typical 4 years as he was an 18/19 year old backup out of Germany. Parker is the comparison, not Curry, who came in older and more experienced. Parker, he is currently not matching up either, but Parker was a forced starter mid 1st year. Schroeder was not. But Parker's ceiling is what I am considering for Schroeder, not Curry. If memory serves, Parker has won championships. Also, there is PLENTY of data to support Collins being a future superstar. There are TONS of mid first round picks to compare him to. Let's start with Giannis. To say he doesn't fit the profile is untrue and lazy.

3. No. Dallas has one potential player that prove to be a championship level player 3 years from now; Sac maybe two? Dallas does have a kick ass owner, but Sac does not. And the Knicks are mess and everyone knows it, including their fans. As a franchise, you are marketing and selling hope. Explain to me Dallas and Sacramento's path to a championship on the backs of current ownership, mgmt, coaching, and players? Hint: Dallas is the easier argument. Atlanta has the goods. They just have to get out of their own way with the continued racist stories coming out.
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2. I said typical profile. The overwhelming majority of stars in the league were lottery picks. There will always be exceptions. Collins was also a high usage post player in college that has not yet demonstrated the ability to hit 3's at a decent volume/rate or guard wing players. Name some stars in the league that fit that criteria.

Tony was also better his rookie year (at 19) than Schroder was this year.

3. Dennis Smith and Fox (Smith especially) both look like they have the potential to be on the CP3/Westbrook/Harden/Steph track. That's what it takes to win in today's NBA.

If the Hawks get more than 2-3 ASG's out of their current young core I will be shocked (pleasantly so if it's because of Collins).
 
Here is a list of guards who were in a similar situation to Schroder. At least 4 seasons by age 23 with significant PT but not a full time starting role from the get go.

If he had a chance to be Tony Parker we would probably know by now.

To be fair, Jordan Farmer (above Schroder on that list) was the PG on a title team so if Prince turns into Kobe, Collins is as good as Gasol, and Bembry can be Lamar Odom then I guess it could happen.
 
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RChildress107 said:
Here is a list of guards who were in a similar situation to Schroder. At least 4 seasons by age 23 with significant PT but not a full time starting role from the get go.

If he had a chance to be Tony Parker we would probably know by now.

To be fair, Jordan Farmer (above Schroder on that list) was the PG on a title team so if Prince turns into Kobe, Collins is as good as Gasol, and Bembry can be Lamar Odom then I guess it could happen.
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Benny Buckets leading the charge
 
RJKarl said:
Interesting, Sixers and Hornets have same O/U
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That seems high for Philly. I know the East is shit but even if you are high on their core it seems like a leap for them to win 41 games with essentially three rookies leading the way.

If I'm taking the over there it feels like I'm betting on Embiid playing 70+ games which I would not be comfortable with at all.
 
People always forget Saric. He was a beast for the last month.
 
RJKarl said:
People always forget Saric. He was a beast for the last month.
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True. I think they have one year similar to the timberwolves last year or the Bucks two years ago and then make a significant leap depending on health and how good Simmons/Fultz are and how well those two play together.
 
Collins is playing today at 4 vs. Rockets. I guess it's the loser's bracket today.
 
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RChildress107 said:
2. I said typical profile. The overwhelming majority of stars in the league were lottery picks. There will always be exceptions. Collins was also a high usage post player in college that has not yet demonstrated the ability to hit 3's at a decent volume/rate or guard wing players. Name some stars in the league that fit that criteria.

Tony was also better his rookie year (at 19) than Schroder was this year.

3. Dennis Smith and Fox (Smith especially) both look like they have the potential to be on the CP3/Westbrook/Harden/Steph track. That's what it takes to win in today's NBA.

If the Hawks get more than 2-3 ASG's out of their current young core I will be shocked (pleasantly so if it's because of Collins).
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If you are going to say overwhelming majority, I need to see the math. Giannis, Tony, Manu, Milsap, Gobert ... all beg to differ. All are out of lottery players who have been all-stars. I think the math will prove there is no math to support your proclamation. That's okay, but then just don't pull a half Rj here and start with declaratives. Your opinion is that Atlanta is not even close. My opinion is that Hawks may have stumbled on two if not three real nice pieces to build a championship caliber team around. Probably have to get lucky again next year, but they have three chances. I may very well be wrong. Been wrong before many times. But I am willing to bet $20 bucks on the Hawks winning 32 games or more. I worry any injury will crush them.

Essentially, the crux of my belief is that as an ex-Hawks fan who turned my back on them after they traded Nique and then drafted Marvin Williams over CP3, I am moving closer to being back on board. If I am a Hawks fan today, I am pretty excited.

And I am totally with you on Dennis Smith, much less so with Fox. I want to see where Smith is 3 or 4 years from now, but that is obviously true with about all of these incoming rookies.
 
[Redacted] being interviewed during Collins' game. Is this hell?
 
So can we pencil in JC for the slam dunk contest?
 
Just flipped it on. First play in second half JC dunk. Second time down court, JC dunk and 1
 
RChildress107 said:
Over the last 20 years 96 of the 100 best seasons and 181 of the 200 best seasons were submitted by players taken in the top half of the first round
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Dude. That's like 10 players named Lebron, Kobe, etc... each playing 7-15 awesome seasons of basketball.

I want full all-star rosters for the last 20 years and where those guys were drafted. The Tim Hardaways, the Kyle Lowelrys. That math will prove that half of all all-star are former lottery picks and the other half were not. go boy, go. Go do the math for me.
 
jaybone said:
Dude. That's like 10 players named Lebron, Kobe, etc... each playing 7-15 awesome seasons of basketball.

I want full all-star rosters for the last 20 years and where those guys were drafted. The Tim Hardaways, the Kyle Lowelrys. That math will prove that half of all all-star are former lottery picks and the other half were not. go boy, go. Go do the math for me.
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You initially said superstar. I you are never one of the ten best players in the league at any point in your career then you weren't a superstar.
 
Here's a list with every player who has logged at least one season with a VORP > 3.0 (would have ranked 28th this year right behind Paul George) in the last 20 years.

In the last 20 years Ben Wallace is the only player with more than 3 such seasons (out of 32) that wasn't drafted in the top half of the first round.
 
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