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John Collins and the draft

Here's a list with every player who has logged at least one season with a VORP > 3.0 (would have ranked 28th this year right behind Paul George) in the last 20 years.

In the last 20 years Ben Wallace is the only player with more than 3 such seasons (out of 32) that wasn't drafted in the top half of the first round.
 
Sounds like Collins had 17 points in 15 minutes for Hawks today.
 
7 points. Slow start. Then he had a dunk and dunk and one in the first 2 minutes of the 3rd.
 


nba youtube just released a mix for collins
 
You initially said superstar. I you are never one of the ten best players in the league at any point in your career then you weren't a superstar.

Where? Where did i say superstar? Not seeing it. I will say that one of Collins, Prince or whomever they draft next year has to develop into paul george or better.

Spurs won 5 w one superstar 2 all stars and good role players.
 
Where? Where did i say superstar? Not seeing it. I will say that one of Collins, Prince or whomever they draft next year has to develop into paul george or better.

Spurs won 5 w one superstar 2 all stars and good role players.

The Spurs won the first one with two superstars. They won the last four with Hall of Famers.
 
Where? Where did i say superstar? Not seeing it. I will say that one of Collins, Prince or whomever they draft next year has to develop into paul george or better.

Spurs won 5 w one superstar 2 all stars and good role players.

Tony and Manu each had 2 seasons on that list. Of the 66 players to do so over the past 20 years, only 15 fell past the first half of the first round.
 
Tony and Manu each had 2 seasons on that list. Of the 66 players to do so over the past 20 years, only 15 fell past the first half of the first round.

That's a significant number for me, essentially 1 out every 4.

I think the whole 3-star thing is a new phenomenon. Essentially, it has taken at least 2 superstars to defeat Lebron once he hit the meat of his career. The Dubs lost with 1 superstar and 2 that were close, so they went and got a 2nd superstar. It was a bit of overkill, but obviously it works. Now, the rest of the league think you need that trio to win a championship. I don't think you do. The Lakers did it with two, the Spurs did it with essentially none, but players who HAD been superstars and knew how to play with each other.

What a franchise needs is hope though, so if a fanbase think you need 3, then sometimes that can dictate. I am not sure what the ATL fanbase think of Schroeder to be honest. Parker took a long time to go from a good point guard to a money top 5 point guard. He got a lot of help from staff, their gameplan to take advantage of his skills, and the players around him. But I think the Spurs have proven that the idea is to COMPETE for a championship each year. You don't really care, if given truth serum, whether you actually win it or not because there is a lot right place right time, good bounce, bad bounce to winning championships, but you want to go into Game 1 thinking you have a 10-15% chance or better.

To be honest, next year, as it looks right now, may be the first year the Spurs aren't there. If you are the Hawks, you need to sell the fact that in 2 or 3 years you WILL go into Game 1 with that reality. IF I was an owner or GM, I wouldn't want to do what the 76ers did to their fanbase for 5 years. That was just cruel.
 
I think future Hall of Famers are superstars no matter how you look at it. It's one think if those Hall of Famers are not significant contributors, but Parker and Manu were superstars. You are grossly underrating their abilities.
 
That's a significant number for me, essentially 1 out every 4.

I think the whole 3-star thing is a new phenomenon. Essentially, it has taken at least 2 superstars to defeat Lebron once he hit the meat of his career. The Dubs lost with 1 superstar and 2 that were close, so they went and got a 2nd superstar. It was a bit of overkill, but obviously it works. Now, the rest of the league think you need that trio to win a championship. I don't think you do. The Lakers did it with two, the Spurs did it with essentially none, but players who HAD been superstars and knew how to play with each other.

What a franchise needs is hope though, so if a fanbase think you need 3, then sometimes that can dictate. I am not sure what the ATL fanbase think of Schroeder to be honest. Parker took a long time to go from a good point guard to a money top 5 point guard. He got a lot of help from staff, their gameplan to take advantage of his skills, and the players around him. But I think the Spurs have proven that the idea is to COMPETE for a championship each year. You don't really care, if given truth serum, whether you actually win it or not because there is a lot right place right time, good bounce, bad bounce to winning championships, but you want to go into Game 1 thinking you have a 10-15% chance or better.

To be honest, next year, as it looks right now, may be the first year the Spurs aren't there. If you are the Hawks, you need to sell the fact that in 2 or 3 years you WILL go into Game 1 with that reality. IF I was an owner or GM, I wouldn't want to do what the 76ers did to their fanbase for 5 years. That was just cruel.

2 out of 9 might be significant, but 78% is certainly an overwhelming majority.
 
I think future Hall of Famers are superstars no matter how you look at it. It's one think if those Hall of Famers are not significant contributors, but Parker and Manu were superstars. You are grossly underrating their abilities.

Tony was a borderline superstar at his prime, Manu never was. Not sure Manu is a lock for the hall based on his NBA career alone.
 
Agreed. Timmy elevated their play as well. I do think Manu could have put up bigger numbers in a different situation. Probably would have retired years ago though.
 
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My bad, only your opinion counts. A Hall of Famer at the height of his career (in the modern era) is, by definition, a superstar.
 
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