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Would you rather pay Manning $2M or pay a top assistant $900K to coach at Wake?

Would you rather?

  • Total voters
    152
Doggus said:
Wellman's shortcomings are independent of our need to hire the best coach we can land now to restore our program to relevance.
Manning seems like a good choice and his 2 year stint as a head coach of a winning team can easily be spun into a good recruiting pitch. As can his stories from Kansas and a long NBA career. He learned from HOF college coaches for years. He made NBA players out of most of the big men he coached at KU. High school kids and their families- and us as fans- should eat this shit up.
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You don't see how Wellman's shortcomings are related to our struggles in hiring the best coach we can land now to restore our program to relevance? I'm not a statistician, but I'm skeptical.
 
DirkTheDeac said:
My post is tongue in cheek. This is all just board nonsense. If we can get Manning we need to get him. If not Manning we are going to have to roll the dice. I just hope we aren't balking at Howland's salary demand. If that ever came out I would be seriously pissed.
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This is a PM that's been going around (palma posted it in LK's Coaching thread). RJ will be thrilled to learn that Howland wasn't considered for "culture" reasons. Maddening.
So we went balls to the wall shaka, but eventually he turned us down. Had all of the alums call, wine and dine. Ultimately he liked vcu

Mike white said he wasnt ready and needed more time. Archie miller turned us down. Mack and howland never considered for cultute.

Rest of list was manning and wojo

And our "highly respected people we consult with" was of course gdo
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I think Wellman really did a great job on fund raising and facility planning and pulling football, baseball, tennis and basketball all into a central area. He built a top flight golf facility named after the King. He's done a hell of a lot for Wake Forest. But when it comes to coaching hires he is out of his depth. If he could admit that and put some of the weight on a search firm (as he should have done before he assumed his NCAA duties before the tournament) we would not be praying for Danny Manning. Nothing against Manning. If we get him he may work out. But seriously, this could have turned out so much better.
 
DirkTheDeac said:
I think Wellman really did a great job on fund raising and facility planning and pulling football, baseball, tennis and basketball all into a central area. He built a top flight golf facility named after the King. He's done a hell of a lot for Wake Forest. But when it comes to coaching hires he is out of his depth. If he could admit that and put some of the weight on a search firm (as he should have done before he assumed his NCAA duties before the tournament) we would not be praying for Danny Manning. Nothing against Manning. If we get him he may work out. But seriously, this could have turned out so much better.
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Sensible post. Not much to disagree with. But as it stands, we need to land Manning and hope his future is as promising as it looks. To me, that's where we're at, and it's not exactly terrible. Manning might be a steal.
 
I agree with you in principle Aloha but a couple details I'd point out.
1. pay them anything they want category is top shelf only: Smart, Wright, Marshall
2. up and comers on a tier below like Archie, Mack and probably Manning clearly should be offered less
3. Howland is somewhere in between.
4. Manning is currently an asset of Tulsa. He's under contract there. We have to offer him a significant raise in addition to opportunity to get him to leave what has been a successful first head coaching job. He has to overcome the tightness he's developed with players, admin, community, etc. Yes, we will need to pay a premium compared to Tulsa to get him to move. That value would seem to be 1.5-1.8 M to me based on intuition only.
5. Whatever it takes to sign Manning is by definition the market price.
6. We've discussed that this is a crossroads for our entire basketball program. Hiring a completely unproven assistant with no HC experience would be beyond idiotic, even if it is frugal. Would be world class stupid.
7. We don't know what has already transpired with other coaches but would have to assume that every big name guy we want has either turned us down or been black balled by RW, NH or BOT and isn't an option. Therefore, splurging on Manning makes sense to me.

Also, I don't get the argument that we don't really want him because this isn't his dream job. He has been a successful hard worker at every stop in his life. Why would he not do the same here? It's not like he's going to start half-assing his new head coaching job because he isn't really sure about Wake Forest, didn't grow up a fan, thinks the academics are too hard or the city isn't hip enough. If he comes here, he'll go all out because he's a winner.
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1-2. Use whoever you want as examples of the top shelf, it doesn't change the conclusion only the top shelf deserves whatever they ask for.
3. Howland's left off only because some think Wellman's not considering him.
4. We should be able to get Manning for $1.5 million. Even at $1.8 million, at least we're not paying him more than Jim Boeheim, which is an embarrassing reflection of how piss poor Wellman is at his job selling the basketball program.
5. Whatever the semantic difference is between what you and I are saying, "market price" as used is a reflection of what other similarly situated or lesser programs looking for a HC would hypothetically be willing to pay for him (VaTech, Boston College), not whatever Manning's ultimate check amount is.
6. "Just because" isn't an argument.
7. Why is it more sensible to double down and put up millions of dollars and half a decade in a high-risk investment than hedging with a low-cost alternative with a lower ceiling and a higher floor?

Anyone who sincerely pursues their vocation will work hard. P.J. Carlesimo was named Seton Hall's "Coach of the Century" after leading their once struggling program to a National Championship game, moved up to the NBA and worked his ass off, and even though all he has to show for it is that he's still only best known for being choked by Latrell Sprewell and mistakenly playing Kevin Durant at SG instead of SF, he's still working his ass off. That's admirable, but the fact that someone won at a different level at some previous stop and is a dedicated person isn't reliably predictive of performance.
 
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Tulsa board is saying we paid 2.4 million. Is that true? Fucking ridiculous.
 
Hope not. Maybe it's just to make themselves feel better.

Why is thread title $900k and poll option $500k?
 
Is that Boogity's first Brad Stevens joke of this whole coaching search?
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
This is a PM that's been going around (palma posted it in LK's Coaching thread). RJ will be thrilled to learn that Howland wasn't considered for "culture" reasons. Maddening.
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Why is "maddening" to not a want coach who was unceremoniously kicked to the curb a year ago, went after the Marquette job and priced himself out of the market and has burned bridges coast-to-coast.

You really hate the truth about him.

Is Ben Howland really Snowden's birth father? That's all that could explain your blind loyalty to a guy virtually nobody in coaching likes or wants to be around.
 
qcdeac said:
Hope not. Maybe it's just to make themselves feel better.

Why is thread title $900k and poll option $500k?
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They probably changed it after Antigua got $900K from USF. The reality is $900K is a lot more to USF than $2M is to us when you consider revenues, league, etc.
 
and they have to cover ph's bloated contract.
 
Step 1: Complain about lack of resources and commitment to winning devoted to the basketball program.

Step 2: Piss and moan because we had to overpay the guy we got because of the current state of the program.

Uhhh, yeah...makes sense to me... :tard:
 
wfumike02 said:
Step 1: Complain about lack of resources and commitment to winning devoted to the basketball program.

Step 2: Piss and moan because we had to overpay the guy we got because of the current state of the program.

Uhhh, yeah...makes sense to me... :tard:
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Makes perfect sense if you look at the whole picture and recognize that there's more to a program than its head coach.
 
I hope we paid through the nose. Set a high-salary standard for the job, and keep it there forever. In no way does that hurt us, the fans. We weren't getting a fan rebate check if Manning signed for 1.4M.
 
After 3 years, would anyone like to change their vote?
 
PhDeac said:
Found this article from SI on the top assistant coaches:
http://college-basketball.si.com/2014/03/11/coaching-carousel-top-assistants/

Here is a list of assistants under 40 from 2 years ago. Three are off the list already, one is in the Final Four. Another name is very familiar.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask...8925/top-ten-thursday-assistants-40-and-under
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Update on that list of top young assistants from 2012.

1. Orlando Antiqua - Flamed out admit scandal at USF.
2. Travis Steele - Associate HC at Xavier
3. Tim Fuller - Out of basketball; administrator at Harris-Stowe State (anybody know about this?)
4. Wojo - HC at Marquette
5. Adrian Autry - Still assistant at Cuse
6. Mike Rhoades - Promoted to HC at VCU
7. Jeff Boals - HC at Stony Brook
8. Kevin Ollie - Promoted to HC at UConn; won national championship
9. Matthew Graves - HC at South Alabama
10. James Whitford - HC at Ball State
 
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