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I’ll bet my right to post on this message board that Wake makes the NCAAT in 2019.

RChildress107 said:
The goal as a program is to win championships. Period. There are several steps between [Redacted] and winning championships. As long as Manning keeps taking those steps he should stick around, when he is no longer taking those steps it’s time for him to go. This year was a step backwards and he will need to make up for it next year.

Tony Bennett is still there because he’s still taking those steps. He hasn’t gotten that program to what should be it’s ultimate goal.
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Bz went 17-51 vs. the ACC
Manning is 20-51 vs. the ACC

that is one slow moving motherfucking escalator

I'm pretty confident there's another coach out there who can take the steps a little faster
 
Strickland33 said:
Why?
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Cause unlike Dan, and apparently some on this board, I haven’t forgotten how awful the program was under [Redacted] and as frustrating as this season has been I can tell the difference between this team and any of [Redacted]’s.

Blowing a big lead against better teams at home has become too common under Manning but to be honest it’s been too common under previous coaches as well. I can think of plenty of stretches under each of our 5 most recent coaches, including Manning, where the team looked far more rudderless.
 
RChildress107 said:
Cause unlike Dan, and apparently some on this board, I haven’t forgotten how awful the program was under [Redacted] and as frustrating as this season has been I can tell the difference between this team and any of [Redacted]’s.

Blowing a big lead against better teams at home has become too common under Manning but to be honest it’s been too common under previous coaches as well. I can think of plenty of stretches under each of our 5 most recent coaches, including Manning, where the team looked far more rudderless.
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IDK man, thing about the Buzz years was the talent was so atrocious that the boat was just floating in the water, rudders can only steer if the boat isn't moving. With Danny we have some talent, but no apparent coaching. Even Dino's teams could play defense.
 
thatguy2016 said:
Bz went 17-51 vs. the ACC
Manning is 20-51 vs. the ACC

that is one slow moving motherfucking escalator

I'm pretty confident there's another coach out there who can take the steps a little faster
Click to expand...

If you compare the Kenpom ranking the escalator becomes a little more obvious.
 
thatguy2016 said:
Bz went 17-51 vs. the ACC
Manning is 20-51 vs. the ACC

that is one slow moving motherfucking escalator

I'm pretty confident there's another coach out there who can take the steps a little faster
Click to expand...

Losing by 5 is a step between losing by 15 and winning. And the goal is a National Championship, not a regular season ACC one.

Of course there is another coach out there who could have taken the steps faster. If Bennett or Stevens had taken over for [Redacted] the first two seasons probably would have been slightly better, last year probably would have been about the same, and this year probably would have been about the same as last year (I.e. way better than this year).

There are plenty of coaches I would rather have than Manning but that doesn’t mean much when it comes to setting expectations and evaluating Manning against those expectations.

Firing Manning because he couldn’t keep pace with Bennett’s rebuild pace is a great way to guarantee you aren’t going to get a coach that has a chance at matching Bennett’s success.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
IDK man, thing about the Buzz years was the talent was so atrocious that the boat was just floating in the water, rudders can only steer if the boat isn't moving. With Danny we have some talent, but no apparent coaching. Even Dino's teams could play defense.
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This argument has been dismantled so many times I’m not even going to bother. Manning has just now built the talent back up to the level [Redacted] inherited. Some of that is certainly on Manning (see 2016 class and maybe Dinos leaving), some is bad luck (see Collins and maybe Dinos), and some is on [Redacted]/Wellman for absolutely devastating the talent base.
 
BiffTannen said:
Yep. We're one spot below UNC-G.
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By any standard, including Kenpom, Manning has failed to meet expectations this year. But this team is still a good bit better than any team [Redacted] put on the floor.

We were a top 40 team last year and people act like Manning has made zero improvement on [Redacted]’s tenure.
 
Prioritizing KenPom over W-L is some BS

Nobody cares about that made up nerd stat. Its the W-L record that's attached to the program, not some fictitious algorithm.
 
BillBrasky said:
Prioritizing KenPom over W-L is some BS

Nobody cares about that made up nerd stat. Its the W-L record that's attached to the program, not some fictitious algorithm.
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If I were an AD I'd love it if other AD's thought like this.
 
RChildress107 said:
Losing by 5 is a step between losing by 15 and winning. And the goal is a National Championship, not a regular season ACC one.
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other coaches manage to skip this losing by 5 step and get straight to winning; my goal is a regular season ACC championship, followed by two tournament championships

RChildress107 said:
Of course there is another coach out there who could have taken the steps faster. If Bennett or Stevens had taken over for [Redacted] the first two seasons probably would have been slightly better, last year probably would have been about the same, and this year probably would have been about the same as last year (I.e. way better than this year).

There are plenty of coaches I would rather have than Manning but that doesn’t mean much when it comes to setting expectations and evaluating Manning against those expectations.
Click to expand...

I expect a WF team to play defense. we don't. the end.

RChildress107 said:
Firing Manning because he couldn’t keep pace with Bennett’s rebuild pace is a great way to guarantee you aren’t going to get a coach that has a chance at matching Bennett’s success.
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the best way to guarantee you won't have a successful coach is to keep the turrible one you have indefinitely
 
The bottom line is the teams with Manning are considerably better than the teams under He Who Shall Not Be Named, but are also well short of most of the teams under Prosser and Gaudio.

The current results are unacceptable by basically any barometer and there are truly baffling in-game coaching decisions that deserve to be scrutinized.

I think advanced stats do a solid job as a whole showing why any argument that Manning is "just as bad as [Redacted]" is absurd, but also do a good job showing that neither has lived up to expectations or what Wake fans should expect from a head coach.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I have no idea. I'd wager probably not very much just based on the general treatment of advanced analytics and statistics by most older white males I know.
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Are older black males into advanced statistics? Just curious why white was thrown in there...
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
The bottom line is the teams with Manning are considerably better than the teams under He Who Shall Not Be Named, but are also well short of most of the teams under Prosser and Gaudio.

The current results are unacceptable by basically any barometer and there are truly baffling in-game coaching decisions that deserve to be scrutinized.

I think advanced stats do a solid job as a whole showing why any argument that Manning is "just as bad as [Redacted]" is absurd, but also do a good job showing that neither has lived up to expectations or what Wake fans should expect from a head coach.
Click to expand...

TITCR.
 
Yeah age is probably the best causal factor. Didn't mean to bring race into it...since god knows that will sidetrack the whole discussion.
 
I mean Pitt is ranked 237th in KP this year, is winless in the ACC, and is just flat out terrible. One of our teams under [Redacted] was 259th in the nation.

That's almost impossibly bad.

Manning's worst year (his first) is 120 and his second is 118.

If you believe [Redacted] truly was horrible, which I assuredly do, then that certainly has to factor in to your evaluation of the first couple years of Manning's tenure. This doesn't speak to year four or pretend to offer absolute excuses, just providing some context for the first couple years which I believe are important.
 
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