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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

wakelaw13 said:
If Manning is relieved of his duties now, Wellman can say with a straight face that this was a successful transition from the Bzzzz years, which Wellman of course created. In 4 years, Manning would have taken the team back to the NCAA tournament, greatly increased the level of recruiting, and successfully signed a top-15 class coming in next year. The new coach can look forward to inheriting a roster with a lot of potential, and future facility upgrades as a serious chip on the recruiting trail.

When to let a coach go is very simple. When your goal is to compete for conference championships, and deep runs into the NCAA tournament, and you know the person who you pay $ millions each year is not a good enough coach to get it done, it is time to move on. Manning is one of the three worst coaches in the ACC, and we're not going to succeed hoping to out-recruit UNC and Duke. That thought is laughable.

ETA: We will lose on Tuesday, and Manning will be back next season. I'll be absolutely shocked if he's not.
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No. No. No. The correct time to let go of a coach is when you are reasonably certain you can replace him with a better coach. Anyone who thinks that time is now is vastly overstating how bad Manning has been, vastly overrating Wellman’s ability to identify/hire a talented coach, and underrating the negative perception firing Manning right now will create among the coaching community (especially given Wellman’s track record).
 
wakelaw13 said:
If Manning is relieved of his duties now, Wellman can say with a straight face that this was a successful transition from the Bzzzz years, which Wellman of course created. In 4 years, Manning would have taken the team back to the NCAA tournament, greatly increased the level of recruiting, and successfully signed a top-15 class coming in next year. The new coach can look forward to inheriting a roster with a lot of potential, and future facility upgrades as a serious chip on the recruiting trail.

When to let a coach go is very simple. When your goal is to compete for conference championships, and deep runs into the NCAA tournament, and you know the person who you pay $ millions each year is not a good enough coach to get it done, it is time to move on. Manning is one of the three worst coaches in the ACC, and we're not going to succeed hoping to out-recruit UNC and Duke. That thought is laughable.

ETA: We will lose on Tuesday, and Manning will be back next season. I'll be absolutely shocked if he's not.
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Good post. Yes, Wake can get a much better coach. Wes or Kelsey would be better as would any number of coaches.
 
The defense being above 100 kenpom again this year is 100% on Manning. At least last year there were the excuses of Arians and Dinos who were both foot slow.

This team has some good to very good defensive pieces. This should be a good defensive team. Worst case it should be adequate.

Chaundeac and Moore are very good defenders. Childress and Sarr are pretty good as well. Crawford is occasionally good and would be a good defender if properly coached and controlled.
Melo in limited time seems like a very good defender and rebounder with just enough offense to be a quality garbage man.

Guards: Childress and Crawford should start. They should be backed up by Wilbekin and Woods. Woods and Wilbekin should not normally be played together. Trade a little offensive punch for defense when they come in.

Small Forward: Chaundeac should get more than 30 minutes every game. He is an excellent defender and an inconsistent offensive player. He should be backed up by Melo. Melo has been under used this year in favor of more jump shooters that cannot defend. Melo rebounds, defends and makes the team more athletic. This is probably the number one reason wake has lost so many games.

Big men: Moore and Mitchell should start. Sarr should back up both positions. The three of them should split the 80 minutes unless you have foul trouble. TT is used only when there is significant foul trouble.

That team is a bubble team. Manning's version is next to last place. That is just one way a new coach fixes this team. Throw in better schemes and better guard teaching. No need to wait.
 
I'm confused when people say firing Manning would be a black mark on the Wake basketball job within the coaching community. There are a list of schools who fire coaches after 4 years with our record or better and I can't think of one situation where theres been a backlash. Schools who are serious about basketball have no problem assessing the situation and future success and make a move if they dont believe their guy will turn things around.

Its hard to believe that the first year State coach finished higher than the defending national champs in his first year after losing an NBA first rounder.
 
I was in favor of giving Manning one more year to coach the talent he’s recruited as well as giving him a shot at the 2019 class. But I have reluctantly joined the “Manning Out” movement. There is no point in keeping Danny any longer.
 
Thad Matta wanting to get back into coaching. Meeting with Ole Miss this week.
 
But why would Beard come to Wake?
 
I don't see how any coach out there could possibly watch Wake basketball this year he say, wow well coached team, if only he had more talent.

The Dino thing is in the rear view mirror. Buzz was a mistake. DM Has failed because of DM. He sucks. He had the resume and name. But we are what our record says we are.

DM must go. It needs to be done now with professionalism and class. An appropriate professional search shoul be initiated.
 
Shake said:
I'm confused when people say firing Manning would be a black mark on the Wake basketball job within the coaching community. There are a list of schools who fire coaches after 4 years with our record or better and I can't think of one situation where theres been a backlash. Schools who are serious about basketball have no problem assessing the situation and future success and make a move if they dont believe their guy will turn things around.
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It's a fantasy, like a scary bed time story that parents once used to scare their children into behaving...as if there's some secret meeting of coaches a few times a year where Wake Forest is only mentioned in hushed voices in dark corners.

It, along with the "no coach would want to coach for a fan base that treated [name redacted] that way" argument, is one of the few tools (however lacking in actual evidence to support it) that are left for those who perpetually argue for giving coaches just one more shot. Reality is that no coach worth hiring looks at our situation, our facilities, our resources, our history, our conference, etc and thinks he is going to fail. Thus, he's not worried about "only" being given 4 years to prove himself. Nor is he worried about our fan base, because he knows that fan bases at many other schools would be far less forgiving of what has occurred over the last 8-10 years.
 
RacerDeac said:
It's a fantasy, like a scary bed time story that parents once used to scare their children into behaving...as if there's some secret meeting of coaches a few times a year where Wake Forest is only mentioned in hushed voices in dark corners.

It, along with the "no coach would want to coach for a fan base that treated [name redacted] that way" argument, is one of the few tools (however lacking in actual evidence to support it) that are left for those who perpetually argue for giving coaches just one more shot. Reality is that no coach worth hiring looks at our situation, our facilities, our resources, our history, our conference, etc and thinks he is going to fail. Thus, he's not worried about "only" being given 4 years to prove himself. Nor is he worried about our fan base, because he knows that fan bases at many other schools would be far less forgiving of what has occurred over the last 8-10 years.
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Good post. 4 years that include 2 20 loss season, no finish above 10th in conference, no defensive ranking above 120, and constant end of game collapses.

Any coach that sees that and thinks the current coach should be retained should not be hired.
 
I imagine that this was DMs last year. Everyone around the program is miserable. DM has enough bank that he doesn't need the aggregation either.

I think he should start a DM big man camp in the Summer and use Wakes facilities.

I really hate it for him and everyone else but this goose is cooked. Time to move on.

Kelsey, Matta. - that would be great. Why did Matta leave OSU? Just long enough?
 
Shake said:
I'm confused when people say firing Manning would be a black mark on the Wake basketball job within the coaching community. There are a list of schools who fire coaches after 4 years with our record or better and I can't think of one situation where theres been a backlash. Schools who are serious about basketball have no problem assessing the situation and future success and make a move if they dont believe their guy will turn things around.

Its hard to believe that the first year State coach finished higher than the defending national champs in his first year after losing an NBA first rounder.
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Eastern Kentucky just fired their head coach because his 3 year record was 32-55. EASTERN KENTUCKY has higher expectations for their basketball program than Wake Forest does.
 
RacerDeac said:
It's a fantasy, like a scary bed time story that parents once used to scare their children into behaving...as if there's some secret meeting of coaches a few times a year where Wake Forest is only mentioned in hushed voices in dark corners.

It, along with the "no coach would want to coach for a fan base that treated [name redacted] that way" argument, is one of the few tools (however lacking in actual evidence to support it) that are left for those who perpetually argue for giving coaches just one more shot. Reality is that no coach worth hiring looks at our situation, our facilities, our resources, our history, our conference, etc and thinks he is going to fail. Thus, he's not worried about "only" being given 4 years to prove himself. Nor is he worried about our fan base, because he knows that fan bases at many other schools would be far less forgiving of what has occurred over the last 8-10 years.
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Plus a billion. The “no one will want the job” is some of the worst LOWF bullshit ever peddled by the khaki wearing, pearl-clutching crew in the seacon club
 
Henry Chinaski said:
Plus a billion. The “no one will want the job” is some of the worst LOWF bullshit ever peddled by the khaki wearing, pearl-clutching crew in the seacon club
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How many college head coaching jobs open up each year? In that year, or even over a 2-3 year rotating period over which coaches are may be looking to make a step up, where would a job at Wake Forest rank? It's always going to be near the top from a facilities/budget/history/conference/location standpoint. The fact that Wellman has failed miserably at the last two hires is more an indicator of the issues with his lone wolf "short list" culture club hiring process rather than any indication that we can't hire an excellent coach to come here.
 
Any coach who comes in and has success at Wake should be able to recruit consistent top 50-75 talent.
 
There is a better chance that Manning would decide to hang it up than him getting fired this year. People are deluded to think there is a realistic chance DM would be fired this year.

I have no doubt that when coaches meet at the final 4 and discuss programs they say 'wow how effed up is that Wake situation'. Especially if Manning is fired after making the NCAAT last year.
 
He won 11 games this year. 11.
 
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