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Doral Moore

So have we gotten so old as a board that no students post here and let us know if he's on campus?

Yep. I don't think there are any students that care enough to do our leg work for us.

On a side note, I was driving down University and saw Brandon Childress. He had some sweet white headphones on and his typical intense game face.
 
So have we gotten so old as a board that no students post here and let us know if he's on campus?

I don't think we've had many students post on the message boards in about 10 years, maybe since Skip's death.
 
So have we gotten so old as a board that no students post here and let us know if he's on campus?

My guess is you haven't been to a game in a while. Students no longer support our team, much less post on the boards. For most games the student section is the band.
 
My guess is you haven't been to a game in a while. Students no longer support our team, much less post on the boards. For most games the student section is the band.

Hahahaha. My accountant had season tickets 3 rows behind the scorers table for his clients. I've been able to get them pretty much whenever I've wanted over the past 8 years. I'm not one of his biggest clients by any stretch of the imagination. It ain't just the students that are no shows.
 
Hahahaha. My accountant had season tickets 3 rows behind the scorers table for his clients. I've been able to get them pretty much whenever I've wanted over the past 8 years. I'm not one of his biggest clients by any stretch of the imagination. It ain't just the students that are no shows.

Sad.
I remember waiting in line in freezing temps at 4:00 in the morning so we could get good seats for the big ACC games.
Students used to be pretty rabid fans.
 
We had a thread less than a year ago where we couldn’t come to a consensus about who should get the most minutes at C between Doral, SJM, and Sarr.

Yes, Doral had a couple of good games as a freshman, but he completely regressed as a sophomore, so let’s not pretend his improvement this year was only because he got minutes.

The dude put in work. Like it or not, you also have to give some credit to Manning.

It’s ridiculous to me that some of you are trying to use Moore’s excellent play this season to help build a case against Manning.

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Manning, but sophomore Moore was not good enough to take minutes from JC or Dinos.
 
Sophomore Doral was an absolutely terrible basketball player.
 
I have believed Doral would develop into decent/good center since his arrival. I thought he was well utilized his freshman year. I believe he was poorly utilized his sophomore year. He responded with hard work and positive direction from Manning. He developed into the decent/good center I thought he could become. He was an asset to the team and a pleasant "surprise" to his numerous detractors. Clearly, he would be best served by returning for his senior season to continue his progression. The team would benefit as well. Who knows? The guards might learn how better to utilize their center that shoots 68% from the field.
 
We get one discussion on how JC should have played more his freshman year, now Moore as well? Some of you are completely delusional.
 
Can’t wait until Sarr improves and we get posters that mysteriously forget how raw he was this year.
 
as long as Sarr is playing at the end of tournament games that are still in doubt and not on the bench watching freshman walkons get dunked on in his place, I absolutely can't wait to see his improvement
 
We get one discussion on how JC should have played more his freshman year, now Moore as well? Some of you are completely delusional.

Why would anyone want to improve on a 2-16 season. All is well.
 
Can’t wait until Sarr improves and we get posters that mysteriously forget how raw he was this year.

Sarr is completely raw and makes tons of mistakes. Even so, he should have played over TT all year. I would have preferred Mitchel to start and Sarr to back up both.
Sarr is a good defender whose length and athleticism causes mismatches. He was not a great option but better than TT and better than the 4-guard waste and should have played more.
 
If Moore leaves, I think it is an indictment on our mission as a program. Not a death blow, but a nail in the coffin. How/why? The purpose of a program is to prepare a group of boys/men for the rest of their lives while winning basketball games in a competitive conference. To do that, you need to recruit players a year with NBA potential, period. You can follow one of several models:

* Duke/Kentucky - create an NBA factory. Every kid who comes expects to play in the NBA in 1-3 years and you grab 3 to 5 of the top 30 players every year. Class is a means to an end. The goal is only to maintain eligibility. A tutoring/mentoring system should guarantee at least one year of eligibility.

* Syracuse/Louisville/UNC/Wake/NC State - recruit a blend of 4 year and 1 -3 year players. All may have NBA aspirations but at least some of your recruits understand that their professional basketball career may only net them several hundred thousand dollars and they need to prepare themselves for the rest of their lives. THIS IS WHERE MANNING SITS. This is a tough spot because you may have kids on your roster who are guaranteed to make millions of dollar or at least hundreds of thousands of dollars and others who want that but may not have the talent or size. You have to have a two-tiered tutoring/mentoring system and kids have to understand what they are individually building towards. School has to be apart of that, and if you are in the program for 3+ years, you have to buy into the importance of the school degree. It may mean the difference between running bottom tier basketball camps for 15 years before settling into being a UPS driver and playing a few years in Belgium before getting a solid entry level job at a bank or insurance company. Huge difference. This is a hard place to manage a program's consistent success and requires a large apparatus and trust between players and coaches and players and educational advisors.

* UVa/Villanova/Butler/Xavier/ND - you are essentially recruiting 4 year players exclusively. There may be a Malcolm Brogdon in the bunch who is so mature and cerebral and talented enough to bust through and make it in the NBA, but that is not what you are thinking when you offer them a scholarship. You are thinking a 4 year progression where they get minutes frosh year, are in the top 8 rotation 2nd year and starters for two years. This requires elite coaching to succeed, period. But on the flip side, every student athlete is on the same page, the same progression. There isn't a 2-tier approach to handling scholly athletes. This is the easiest path AS LONG AS THE COACH IS AMAZING. The coach also has to feel extremely safe to go this path. There may be years where you win 16-18 games. And you are unlikely to win championships. This path is about creating and maintaining a proud program that does provide months of excitement and hope and is likely dashed 24 years out of 25 a round or two shy of expectation. But that is sort of okay but the journey has been fun.

We do not currently have the staff for path 3 IMO, but path 2 is the hardest to manage. You are more likely to capture lighting in a bottle one year and be severely disappointed the next. Upon reflection, I would prefer path 3. It suits Wake better, but I am okay with path 2. Path 1 isn't going to happen.
 
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Excellent post! I agree w/you in that I would like to see us follow the ND & UVA path, but whatever path we pursue it's vital that the entire coaching staff understands their mission and how to accomplish the end game (and manage end games better...) We cannot let our best athletes/players/students leave a program and have any sustainability and cohesion. It was obvious that the loss of JC affected us in the talent department, but maybe the loss of Dinos (his numbers should have been easily replaced by someone on the bench - if we developed them) was greater felt in practices, locker room, and chemistry on the court. If we lose Woods, Donovan, Doral, and Craw, we are like a path one school minus the NBA talent.
 
If Moore leaves, I think it is an indictment on our mission as a program. Not a death blow, but a nail in the coffin. How/why? The purpose of a program is to prepare a group of boys/men for the rest of their lives while winning basketball games in a competitive conference. To do that, you need to recruit players a year with NBA potential, period. You can follow one of several models:

* Duke/Kentucky - create an NBA factory. Every kid who comes expects to play in the NBA in 1-3 years and you grab 3 to 5 of the top 30 players every year. Class is a means to an end. The goal is only to maintain eligibility. A tutoring/mentoring system should guarantee at least one year of eligibility.

* Syracuse/Louisville/UNC/Wake/NC State - recruit a blend of 4 year and 1 -3 year players. All may have NBA aspirations but at least some of your recruits understand that their professional basketball career may only net them several hundred thousand dollars and they need to prepare themselves for the rest of their lives. THIS IS WHERE MANNING SITS. This is a tough spot because you may have kids on your roster who are guaranteed to make millions of dollar or at least hundreds of thousands of dollars and others who want that but may not have the talent or size. You have to have a two-tiered tutoring/mentoring system and kids have to understand what they are individually building towards. School has to be apart of that, and if you are in the program for 3+ years, you have to buy into the importance of the school degree. It may mean the difference between running bottom tier basketball camps for 15 years before settling into being a UPS driver and playing a few years in Belgium before getting a solid entry level job at a bank or insurance company. Huge difference. This is a hard place to manage a program's consistent success and requires a large apparatus and trust between players and coaches and players and educational advisors.

* UVa/Villanova/Butler/Xavier/ND - you are essentially recruiting 4 year players exclusively. There may be a Malcolm Brogdon in the bunch who is so mature and cerebral and talented enough to bust through and make it in the NBA, but that is not what you are thinking when you offer them a scholarship. You are thinking a 4 year progression where they get minutes frosh year, are in the top 8 rotation 2nd year and starters for two years. This requires elite coaching to succeed, period. But on the flip side, every student athlete is on the same page, the same progression. There isn't a 2-tier approach to handling scholly athletes. This is the easiest path AS LONG AS THE COACH IS AMAZING. The coach also has to feel extremely safe to go this path. There may be years where you win 16-18 games. And you are unlikely to win championships. This path is about creating and maintaining a proud program that does provide months of excitement and hope and is likely dashed 24 years out of 25 a round or two shy of expectation. But that is sort of okay but the journey has been fun.

We do not currently have the staff for path 3 IMO, but path 2 is the hardest to manage. You are more likely to capture lighting in a bottle one year and be severely disappointed the next. Upon reflection, I would prefer path 3. It suits Wake better, but I am okay with path 2. Path 1 isn't going to happen.

Excellent post. Wake is currently in scenario 2 with Manning. Our goal ideally should be scenario 3. That requires finding a really good, smart, young coach. Wake is not going to find that coach already established somewhere at a mid major or above. Wake will need to identify the talent early and make it happen.
 
Scenario 2 is a fine place to be. We don’t want to not pursue top talent. We just don’t have the coach to pull it off.
 
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