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Official 2018 NBA Offseason Thread: the preseason cometh

PhDeac said:
Heard a bit from Shannon Sharpe that is the best explanation I’ve heard. Kawhi saw what happened to Isaiah Thomas and didn’t want to risk his big payday by coming back early.


https://nesn.com/2018/04/why-shannon-sharpe-believes-isaiah-thomas-affected-kawhi-leonard-saga/
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That's pretty weak. The Spurs are the most cautious team in the league, they practically invented resting old or injured players (i.e. no injury is too small to sit someone down for). Hard to think back to the all-time greats who have missed time like this, especially if they could have played. If you are on a team that's 30-52 I get it, but Kawhi's impact take the Spurs from a possible 1st round exit to really bad news in the 2nd round for one of the contenders.

And, if it comes to that, zero chance I send him to the Lakers. In fact, I'd send him to the Eastern Conference even if I don't get as much for him as I could in the West. Too bad there isn't a team in Vancouver anymore (yes I know it's Western Conference). Or I'd send him to NYC, let him see what it's like to be under the constant media pressure.
 
Official 2017 NBA Thread: my god it's full of all-stars

I’m not sure if your point. The Spurs aren’t sitting him. The Spurs with a less than 100% Kawhi aren’t contending. From Kawhi’s perspective it makes sense to sit out, get back to 100%, return to MVP status, and get paid.

By the way, if the organization hadn’t invested so much energy into get LMA back to being an elite player and Parker and Manu weren’t winding down their careers, I think they would have be content to let all the records lapse and tank this year.

I hope the Spurs see this as preserving a long term investment instead of Kawhi bailing.
 
everyone's watching this nugs wolves game tonight, right?
 
I'd be worried if i were a Spurs fan. I can't imagine Pop staying super motivated if they have to move Kawhi. Now you're talking about a core of LMA (32), Danny Green (30) and Patty Mills? All while some of the former western conference bottom feeders start to build real momentum with some young stars - the Jazz, Pelicans, Wolves, Nuggets, Lakers are all going to be good to very good for the next 3-5 years. Plus the Warriors and Rockets are set up to be the Western Conference contenders for at least the next handful of seasons. And then the Blazers and Thunder are firmly playoff caliber teams that don't have contender upside but are still good enough to hang around middle playoff seeds.
 
Without Kawhi it’s pretty naïve to expect the Spurs to contend in the post-Duncan era. For all the “team”/“system” bullshit, it was really all about having a HOF player bought in with good pieces around him. Give me Duncan over Buford any day.
 
Obviously the Spurs are screwed if they have to move Kawhi. There’s way they’ll get enough value for him. What could they ask for? Two 1sts isn’t enough because any team with Kawhi is going to be very good. An Ingram level talent and change? No.

But would it trigger a full franchise reset? Probably not. They still got 47 wins. It’s going to take major moves to reach the top anyway.
 
Clearly Duncan was one of the greatest of all time. Parker and Ginobli will be HoF as well so you can't boil it all down to Duncan.

Any trade for Kawhi has to incluxe fifty mills or pau.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Without Kawhi it’s pretty naïve to expect the Spurs to contend in the post-Duncan era. For all the “team”/“system” bullshit, it was really all about having a HOF player bought in with good pieces around him. Give me Duncan over Buford any day.
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Sure. Duncan puts you in contention. Good pieces get you the championships.

Of course, you’ve got to give Buford credit for getting Kawhi.
 
Official 2017 NBA Thread: my god it's full of all-stars

PhDeac said:
Sure. Duncan puts you in contention. Good pieces get you the championships.

Of course, you’ve got to give Buford credit for getting Kawhi.
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I give Chip Engellend just as much credit for improving his shooting.

I also give Duncan the credit for setting the example.

Duncan is the reason Pop’s career is greater than Don Nelson’s.
 
Ludicrous...Don Nelson was a slightly above average coach. Pop is the greatest coach of all time.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Parker and Manu are great, but Duncan made them HoFers.
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This discussion has happened before and nit going to rehash it. They are absolutely HoF'ers. They have had great NBA careers as well as international.

Ginobli dragged Argentina to a gold medal.

Parker is a finals mvp. None of that discounts Duncan's impact.

We can further discuss on the spursdonk thread if you care. Otherwise we'll agree to disagree and they'll still be inducted.
 
The sixers are currently beating the Bucks 70-31 in the 2nd Quarter. It seems the Bucks, currently the 6 seed, do not want to play the Sixers, the current 3 seed, in the next game.
 
PhDeac said:
I’m not sure if your point. The Spurs aren’t sitting him. The Spurs with a less than 100% Kawhi aren’t contending. From Kawhi’s perspective it makes sense to sit out, get back to 100%, return to MVP status, and get paid.

By the way, if the organization hadn’t invested so much energy into get LMA back to being an elite player and Parker and Manu weren’t winding down their careers, I think they would have be content to let all the records lapse and tank this year.

I hope the Spurs see this as preserving a long term investment instead of Kawhi bailing.
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My point is that if the quoted article is correct and Kawhi has just decided that the Spurs doctors have cleared him to play and they don't have his best interests in mind, he's a whinny little beeatch. The Spurs are historically the most conservative team at rolling out players onto the court with minor injuries much less major injuries (btw does anyone really know what is wrong with Kawhi?). If Kawhi is being personally super conservative by contradicting the Spurs opinion that he can play, he's choosing his $200M payday instead of playing, I'd say he owes the Spurs a refund on this season, or at least from the time he was cleared to now. Oddly this can never happen, but conceptually how do you pay a guy that your doctors says is ready and the player says he's not.

buckets said:
I'd be worried if i were a Spurs fan. I can't imagine Pop staying super motivated if they have to move Kawhi. Now you're talking about a core of LMA (32), Danny Green (30) and Patty Mills? All while some of the former western conference bottom feeders start to build real momentum with some young stars - the Jazz, Pelicans, Wolves, Nuggets, Lakers are all going to be good to very good for the next 3-5 years. Plus the Warriors and Rockets are set up to be the Western Conference contenders for at least the next handful of seasons. And then the Blazers and Thunder are firmly playoff caliber teams that don't have contender upside but are still good enough to hang around middle playoff seeds.
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I'm sure they'd never get enough for him as he is valued right now, but they would get plenty to get the Spurs close to the top. How about the Knicks, and the Poringus (sp?) guy? Or the Spurs could get a raft load of younger guys over night that are good enough to keep them in the playoffs until they fully develop.

Deacfreak07 said:
Parker and Manu are great, but Duncan made them HoFers.
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Parker and especially Manu got Tim 4 more rings. Don't know if you were on the boards after 1999, but the consensus here was Tim needed to take the Orlando deal and pair with Grant Hill and McGrady because the Spurs would never put enough pieces around him to get him more rings. They were game changers in their prime and Tim benefited from that. Could they have won on a team together without Tim, certainly not without a 3rd guy, but you can't say that Tim was going to carry the Spurs to 4 titles by himself.
 
Deac83 said:
My point is that if the quoted article is correct and Kawhi has just decided that the Spurs doctors have cleared him to play and they don't have his best interests in mind, he's a whinny little beeatch. The Spurs are historically the most conservative team at rolling out players onto the court with minor injuries much less major injuries (btw does anyone really know what is wrong with Kawhi?). If Kawhi is being personally super conservative by contradicting the Spurs opinion that he can play, he's choosing his $200M payday instead of playing, I'd say he owes the Spurs a refund on this season, or at least from the time he was cleared to now. Oddly this can never happen, but conceptually how do you pay a guy that your doctors says is ready and the player says he's not.



I'm sure they'd never get enough for him as he is valued right now, but they would get plenty to get the Spurs close to the top. How about the Knicks, and the Poringus (sp?) guy? Or the Spurs could get a raft load of younger guys over night that are good enough to keep them in the playoffs until they fully develop.



Parker and especially Manu got Tim 4 more rings. Don't know if you were on the boards after 1999, but the consensus here was Tim needed to take the Orlando deal and pair with Grant Hill and McGrady because the Spurs would never put enough pieces around him to get him more rings. They were game changers in their prime and Tim benefited from that. Could they have won on a team together without Tim, certainly not without a 3rd guy, but you can't say that Tim was going to carry the Spurs to 4 titles by himself.
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They were Pippens to Duncan’s Jordan. Let’s not get it twisted.
 
Yeah, 83 was the only one back then who thought the Spurs were a better situation than the Magic. He hyped up Manu before anybody else even heard of him.
 
Don’t get me wrong, I love Manu and TP. I just think Tim is often reduced to a piece of a system. Tim was the system. The system was built around him. Just ask Gregg Popovich.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Don’t get me wrong, I love Manu and TP. I just think Tim is often reduced to a piece of a system. Tim was the system. The system was built around him. Just ask Gregg Popovich.
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I think the point is you couldn't just put 4 average NBA players with Tim and win the title. Tim needed HOF level talent (not GOAT talent) with him for the Spurs and the 'system' to dominate for so long.

I was thinking of the Jordan/Pippen situation.

And getting a Jackson/Kerr/Horry playoff performance helps as well.
 
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