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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - Charles Coleman de-commits to Wake. :(

Deaconblue said:
Talent is paramount in the upper echelons of college basketball today. Conventional wisdom is that it takes three NBA caliber players, with at least one a starter, plus a couple of Euro-league level talent guys to be a serious contender for the NCAA title.

Winning the ACC regular season requires about the same. Top half ACC finish requires at least two NBA quality players.
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I think you’re overstating what’s needed to be a top half team. If I had to choose coaching or talent, I choose coaching every time.
 
Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot nothing is going to get better. It’s not.
 
Deaconblue said:
There are outcomes between those extremes that are possible. It is not a binary situation. There are also outlier scenarios that are better than the best case described. For instance, if Sarr has a John Collins 2.0 year, Hoard is as good as a 5 star should be, Craw returns and plays like he needs to for a good pre-NBA season, Chaundee and Melo makes a respectable frosh to soph improvement, the two grad transfers are able to contribute, and Wake could just squeeze into the top third of the ACC.

With some things going the other way, 2018-2019 could be worse than 2017-2018.

Most probably some things go well and other things not so well and Wake is somewhere in the middle third of the ACC.
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You just named 7 scenarios that we need to happen in unison just to squeeze into the top third of the ACC. Man its really depressing being a Wake fan :/
 
PhDeac said:
I think you’re overstating what’s needed to be a top half team. If I had to choose coaching or talent, I choose coaching every time.
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So much nope on this.

You pick your coach, and a team of G leaguers.

I coach the NBA all star team.

Which team wins?
 
Would someone please clarify for me what I am and am not allowed to think or feel about the future of our basketball program kthx
 
BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - Grad Transfers Ikenna Smart and Torry Johnson to Wake!

Deaconblue said:
So much nope on this.

You pick your coach, and a team of G leaguers.

I coach the NBA all star team.

Which team wins?
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You’re assuming a gap in talent and experience that would not exist in college.

The best college talent isn’t just throw the ball on the court talent especially in the one and done era.
 
PhDeac said:
You’re assuming a gap in talent and experience that would not exist in college.

The best college talent isn’t just throw the ball on the court talent especially in the one and done era.
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There are major gaps in talent between different college team. There has been a lot of discussion on these boards about which Wake players could play and/or start on other college teams. Much of the opinion was that Wake players wouldn't get much court time on the upper echelon ACC teams.

Excellent coaching might be worth a win or two a year. Superior talent will get you a lot more.
 
The major gaps in talent between college teams are between 18 and 19 year olds playing for the best coaches and less talented but more experienced players at other schools.

The gap in your example is between the most talented and very experienced NBA players and mostly inexperienced and far less talented G-League players.

There's no way a well-coached G-League team would beat an NBA All-Star team. We see well-coached (or not even well-coached) less talented college teams beat talented college teams every March.
 
PhDeac said:
You’re assuming a gap in talent and experience that would not exist in college.

The best college talent isn’t just throw the ball on the court talent especially in the one and done era.
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Switch Coach K and Manning this past year, who wins between Wake and Duke?
 
scooter84 said:
Switch Coach K and Manning this past year, who wins between Wake and Duke?
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I think K would win at least 2 or 3 games in a best of 7 series.

How is blaming talent a defense of Manning? It's on Manning to recruit and retain the talent. The real issue is if we switched K and Manning, we'd have better coaching AND better talent.
 
no one defended Manning. They responded to the "choose coaching over talent every time" comment. I was waiting for the latter half of your post to come though, humorously predictable.
 
PhDeac said:
I think K would win at least 2 or 3 games in a best of 7 series.

How is blaming talent a defense of Manning? It's on Manning to recruit and retain the talent. The real issue is if we switched K and Manning, we'd have better coaching AND better talent.
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I think K might win 1 out of 10 in that scenario - best case.

I don't know about anyone else but for me this has nothing to do with defending Manning. I think you just make a dumb statement when you said coaching was more important than talent for a college team. And you can't say a better coach would get better talent - that is a different question. If you have to choose one or the other, talent is clearly far more important - and a basic requirement for success.
 
Getting talent is part of coaching in college. You can't separate the jobs of a coach to make a point. That leads to utter ridiculous comparisons like G-League vs. NBA All-Stars.

Either way, the talent on our team last year wasn't keeping from being relevant. It's how that talent was used.

Charlotte, it's funny how you say you agree Manning isn't the guy, but you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that it puts you into the same category as me.
 
scooter84 said:
I think K might win 1 out of 10 in that scenario - best case.

I don't know about anyone else but for me this has nothing to do with defending Manning. I think you just make a dumb statement when you said coaching was more important than talent for a college team. And you can't say a better coach would get better talent - that is a different question. If you have to choose one or the other, talent is clearly far more important - and a basic requirement for success.
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This is correct. Ph just makes vague statements like "coaching is more important than talent" so he can twist it to mean whatever he wants it to mean later in a discussion so he's "right"

PhDeac said:
Getting talent is part of coaching in college. You can't separate the jobs of a coach to make a point. That leads to utter ridiculous comparisons like G-League vs. NBA All-Stars.

Either way, the talent on our team last year wasn't keeping from being relevant. It's how that talent was used.

Charlotte, it's funny how you say you agree Manning isn't the guy, but you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that it puts you into the same category as me.
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I can both think Manning is not the guy and not be a miserable ass all the time. You should give it a try.
 
So if I offered you the choice between Brad Stevens as head coach for the next 4 years or the next 4 recruiting classes ranked the same as Duke's last 4 recruiting classes and Manning stays, people would take the latter?
 
PhDeac said:
So if I offered you the choice between Brad Stevens as head coach for the next 4 years or the next 4 recruiting classes ranked the same as Duke's last 4 recruiting classes and Manning stays, people would take the latter?
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I'd take that talent with Manning.

ETA:

I don't think the gap in coaching between Manning and Brad Stevens is nearly as great, nor is it as important as the gap between the talent in the last four Duke classes and Wake right now.
 
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Completely depends on what you're talking about with coaching. Your original "take coaching over talent" comment seemed to clearly imply coaching without recruiting (aka talent - so just game planning, in game coaching, etc.). If you want to say you meant coaching counts as having someone who can bring in talent AND coach then the conversation should be over because that's not what the argument started as. A talent v coaching argument should imply a great coach with a bad team v a bad coach with a great team - otherwise its an argument of a great coach with a great team v a bad coach with a great team which has an obvious answer.
 
we're not bringing Duke-level talent to WF

and we're probably not hiring a Brad Stevens-level coach

fun (ish) exercise, though
 
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