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College basketball coaching changes

tintinisahottie said:
agreed. Incredibly impressive to fail to get to the tourney in 4 years at Wichita State.
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What about winning the Big South reg season or conference tournament 8 out of 9 years at Winthrop? But yeah, taking over a Wichita State team that was absolutely HORRIBLE when he got there and making them a 29 game winner in just 4 years is a sign of a bad coach.
 
ryalaman said:
What about winning the Big South reg season or conference tournament 8 out of 9 years at Winthrop? But yeah, taking over a Wichita State team that was absolutely HORRIBLE when he got there and making them a 29 game winner in just 4 years is a sign of a bad coach.
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"The Big South was very, very low major. He moved up a big step to Wichita State, which was still one of the bigger mid-major names in the country when he took over. He still hasn't gotten into the tourney with the Shockers. It's not really that baffling why a high major hasn't scooped him up yet."
 
tintinisahottie said:
The Big South was very, very low major. He moved up a big step to Wichita State, which was still one of the bigger mid-major names in the country when he took over. He still hasn't gotten into the tourney with the Shockers. It's not really that baffling.
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Check out the Shockers' resume this year. They weren't exactly a slouchy team. Similar resume to VCU, you might say. And in the NIT they just crushed teams, including major conference teams.

The broader point is that he's been consistently successful at 2 different schools over a 4 year span. I don't think he's a perfect candidate or anything, but I value consistent success over a large statistical period over a single tournament run (see: Shaka).

**disclaimer** - I like Shaka. I just think there's a bit of Final Four hype surrounding the guy. I don't think he's a Paul Hewitt, but that specter always looms. Paul Hewitt Thesis: one final four does not a coach make.
 
Looks like it's official. State dodged a major bullet unless Mizzou made the hire because they found out Shaka is staying at VCU.

ryalaman said:
[Redacted] wasn't exactly a great hire, but his resume was better than Haith's.
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How so?

Frank Haith
Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason Miami (FL) (Atlantic Coast Conference) (2004–present) 2004–2005 Miami (FL) 16–13 7–9 T–6th NIT First Round 2005–2006 Miami (FL) 18–16 7–9 T–7th NIT Quarterfinals 2006–2007 Miami (FL) 12–20 4–12 12th
2007–2008 Miami (FL) 23–11 8–8 T–5th NCAA Second Round 2008–2009 Miami (FL) 19–13 7–9 T–7th NIT Second Round 2009–2010 Miami (FL) 20–13 4–12 12th
2010–2011 Miami (FL) 21–15 6–10 9th NIT Quarterfinals Miami (FL): 129–101 43–69
Total: 129–101

Jeff [Redacted]
Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason UMBC (Independent) (1996–1998) 1986-1987 UMBC 12-16


1987-1988 UMBC 13-15


Air Force (Mountain West) (2005–2007) 2005-2006 Air Force 24-7 12-4 2nd NCAA First Round 2006-2007 Air Force 26-9 10-6 3rd (tied) NIT Final Four Colorado (Big 12) (2007–2010) 2007-2008 Colorado 12-20 3-13 12th
2008-2009 Colorado 9-22 1-15 12th
2009-2010 Colorado 15-16 6-10 8th
Wake Forest (Atlantic Coast Conference) (2010–present) 2010-2011 Wake Forest 8-24 1-15 12th
Total: 119-129 (.480)


Edit: How do you format charts on these boards?
 
TexasDeac10 said:
Check out the Shockers' resume this year. They weren't exactly a slouchy team. Similar resume to VCU, you might say. And in the NIT they just crushed teams, including major conference teams.

The broader point is that he's been consistently successful at 2 different schools over a 4 year span. I don't think he's a perfect candidate or anything, but I value consistent success over a large statistical period over a single tournament run (see: Shaka).

**disclaimer** - I like Shaka. I just think there's a bit of Final Four hype surrounding the guy. I don't think he's a Paul Hewitt, but that specter always looms. Paul Hewitt Thesis: one final four does not a coach make.
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I hear you, but you said it was baffling. I gave reasons why it isn't "baffling". Surprising maybe but it's still pretty easily explained, especially when you toss in the rumors of him being an asshole/unbearable to work with
 
I would argue that [Redacted] at Air Force was much more impressive than anything Haith has been able to accomplish.
 
I'm not exactly saying it's a good hire for Missouri, but I just think he could be decent at a place that actually cares about basketball. I can see how his situation would be similar to us hiring Bz, but nothing about Bz excited anyone, while Haith has actually had success bringing talent to a traditionally awful basketball school.

I wonder who Miami will target now.
 
ryalaman said:
I would argue that [Redacted] at Air Force was much more impressive than anything Haith has been able to accomplish.
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I would argue that Bz' track record at other jobs is a sign that he wasn't the reason Air Force accomplished what they did.

I'm curious why people think Haith's 23-11 in the ACC with an NCAAT win is worse than Bz going 26-9 in the Mountain West with an NIT Final Four.

Seems like a lot of fanbases aren't happy with their new coaches. Lots of underwhelming hires out there. I'd be shocked if Miami went with a current head coach.
 
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PhDeac said:
I would argue that Bz' track record at other jobs is a sign that he wasn't the reason Air Force accomplished what they did.

Seems like a lot of fanbases aren't happy with their new coaches. Lots of underwhelming hires out there. I'd be shocked if Miami went with a current head coach.
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I'm not really trying to defend [Redacted]. And what you're saying about his Air Force tenure may very well be true. But I still think his resume at the time of his hiring is stronger than Haith's right now. Haith has finished in the top half of the ACC 1 time. In 7 years. He has never finished above .500. [Redacted] led Air Force to the best 2 year stretch in that program's history.
 
Miami's history ain't much to look at either.
 
This is all leading to an intriguing question:

Would you rather have a coach with a .400-.500 track record at a historically sub par school in a power conference, or a coach with a .750 record at a school in a mid-low major conference?
 
TexasDeac10 said:
It's not at all, but neither is Colorado's.
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But Bz didn't do anything meaningful at Colorado. He has the 2nd worst coaching record in Colorado history.
 
TexasDeac10 said:
This is all leading to an intriguing question:

Would you rather have a coach with a .400-.500 track record at a historically sub par school in a power conference, or a coach with a .750 record at a school in a mid-low major conference?
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Kinda depends on the coach. Anthony Grant at VCU was bonerific (and still is... I'd kill for him to be Gary's replacement) but Cuonzo Martin (I'm throwing out his first year because he was given nothing to work with and I'm too lazy to come up with another example) may not be so much. That said, I think the mid major coach is generally who I'd rather have.
 
I hear you, but there's also a certainty problem here. Bz coached at Colorado for 3 years. Haith was at Miami for 7. There's a big question as to what Bz's 4th and 5th years at Colorado would have been like. With Haith, I think you have an ample sample (heh) size.
 
Bz coached at Air Force for 2 years. You seem to be pretty certain about him.
 
PhDeac said:
I would argue that Bz' track record at other jobs is a sign that he wasn't the reason Air Force accomplished what they did.

I'm curious why people think Haith's 23-11 in the ACC with an NCAAT win is worse than Bz going 26-9 in the Mountain West with an NIT Final Four.

Seems like a lot of fanbases aren't happy with their new coaches. Lots of underwhelming hires out there. I'd be shocked if Miami went with a current head coach.
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agreed
 
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