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Possible Wake Forest Coaching Candidates Analysis

Guys really didn't intend to start a debate on Skip, was just using him as an illustration that belonging to a coaching tree doesn't really mean much of anything. His name was the first that came to mind for obvious reasons.
 
WFU Lurker said:
Looks good, but I would move Richey to tier 3 probably and then create a tier 4 for Turner and McKay (and Kelsey).

Would also say that if we get into tier 3 world, you probably start interviewing some associate head coaches too.
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If we end up in tier 3, that is when Wellman is told he is fired and a more qualified person starts back with tier 1.
 
WFU Lurker said:
Guys really didn't intend to start a debate on Skip, was just using him as an illustration that belonging to a coaching tree doesn't really mean much of anything. His name was the first that came to mind for obvious reasons.
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The significance of coaching trees is that they usually have roots in a P6 school. That situation gives the young assistant coaches exposure to recruiting and instructing top 100 players. Through multiple visits to multiple recruits, they get a better feel for the thought processes of top 100 recruits. Success recruiting top 100 guys is necessary, but by itself not sufficient for success in P6 conferences.

It also has them game planning against the top college coaches multiple games per year, even if they are working for one of those top coaches. Its not just for one or two in early season games.
 
I've enjoyed reading the last page or two - some good info. Thanks.

My add will not be as informative: iN addition to blowing up Wake hoops for a decade, Wellman has the worst hair. He dyes it AND it is super thin. He could ask Stephen Miller for hair advice and end up with a better coif. Better yet, he really should ask Jeff Bezos for his advice.
 
I'm loving this discussion, but there are three probabilities that take the wind out of my sails...

1) RW is probably making our next MBB hire.
2) RW will probably fuck it up.
3) Manning will probably be back next year.
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
I'm loving this discussion, but there are three probabilities that take the wind out of my sails...

1) RW is probably making our next MBB hire.
2) RW will probably fuck it up.
3) Manning will probably be back next year.
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Your 3 eliminates your 1 and 2 happening this year.
 
Deaconblue said:
Your 3 eliminates your 1 and 2 happening this year.
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Exactly. I fear nothing is going to happen this year. I also fear that means RW will be here for at least another 2-3 years and that DM could be retained another year (after next year) if he shows any improvement at all (assuming he's not shown the door at the end of this year...which I hope happens, but don't think it will).
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
Exactly. I fear nothing is going to happen this year. I also fear that means RW will be here for at least another 2-3 years and that DM could be retained another year (after next year) if he shows any improvement at all (assuming he's not shown the door at the end of this year...which I hope happens, but don't think it will).
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He won't be here next year.
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
Exactly. I fear nothing is going to happen this year. I also fear that means RW will be here for at least another 2-3 years and that DM could be retained another year (after next year) if he shows any improvement at all (assuming he's not shown the door at the end of this year...which I hope happens, but don't think it will).
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No offense intended, but this shows you have zero pulse on what's going on around the program.
 
netflixnchildres said:
Prohm is getting $2.0 million a year at Iowa State. Its not a ton of money, last coaching search apparently money wasn't an issue. Have any of you been to Iowa State? It sucks, in every possible way. Prohm is from the Southeast, and could come here to play in a better conference, with more prestige, while making more money, and being closer to where he is from. Seems like a lot of positives with the only negatives being you have to compete with good programs like Duke, UNC, and UVA. I want a coach sees that competition as a positive.

Oats is making $600,000 a year. Wayyyy less than we can pay. He is recruiting to Buffalo, NY to a school that cannot even come close to Wake Forest in facilities, campus environment, location, conference prestige, etc. Oats should easily take our offer unless we get outbid by a better job, which I would put at less than a 50% chance.

The problem is 1. Does Wellman or who ever is in charge this time even reach out to them? and 2. Does Wellman or whoever is in charge come in with a strong offer and not fuck things up?

I think if you offer Prohm $3mil a year to come here, we get him. I also think if you offer Oats between $2-2.5 million a year we can get him. And I'm still interested in John Brannen, and I'd bet he'd come here for $1.5 million a year. I don't know the budget, because almost no one knows Manning's buyout. But whatever the budget is, there are good coaches available that will want to come here.
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I like the attitude of your post, but one thing I'd point out is that for a guy like Oats, his options aren't limited to (a) staying at Buffalo and making $600k and (b) going to Wake and making more than $600k. Although we may have the best job open this offseason (I seriously doubt that'll be the case, and kind of recall we felt the same way when we hired Manning and maybe even [Redacted] and we see how those turned out), those guys also have the option to wait and see what other jobs open up in the future. For example, Shaka Smart didn't take the Wake job, and in fact he didn't take any job other in 2014. He stayed at VCU another year, then took an even better job that became available. Likewise, Archie Miller waited another 3 years before jumping on the Indiana job.

All this is to say, for these guys, the calculus is not necessarily Current School vs. Wake. It may make more sense for them to wait.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
No offense intended, but this shows you have zero pulse on what's going on around the program.
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Not sure what this means. What is "pulse"? It was obvious that DM wasn't cutting it prior to this year. Why now? Bz was here way too long, too. Dino probably should have been made an interim, won some games and made two post seasons, and was abruptly fired after being extended for bullshit reasons. I'm just wondering what pulse means.
 
Say Hey Deac said:
I like the attitude of your post, but one thing I'd point out is that for a guy like Oats, his options aren't limited to (a) staying at Buffalo and making $600k and (b) going to Wake and making more than $600k. Although we may have the best job open this offseason (I seriously doubt that'll be the case, and kind of recall we felt the same way when we hired Manning and maybe even [Redacted] and we see how those turned out), those guys also have the option to wait and see what other jobs open up in the future. For example, Shaka Smart didn't take the Wake job, and in fact he didn't take any job other in 2014. He stayed at VCU another year, then took an even better job that became available. Likewise, Archie Miller waited another 3 years before jumping on the Indiana job.

All this is to say, for these guys, the calculus is not necessarily Current School vs. Wake. It may make more sense for them to wait.
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Valid point, the hope is Wake is enticing enough an opportunity to them.
 
netflixnchildres said:
He won't be here next year.
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Manning will be gone next year. We have a lifeless fucking area, are bleeding money because of it, there is zero enthusiasm around the program, and we may get to 11 wins. Despite what it may seem on the surface, the biggest donors see the trainwreck that is our flagship program. Changes are coming.
 
I made a post a couple of years ago saying Ron has 2-3 years left before retirement. I'm confident that he'll announce his retirement in 2019. I'm certain Danny won't be back next season. Bzz was given 4 years, Danny 5. Both given too much time, but I wouldn't relate us firing Bz after year 4 with giving Danny a year 6.

Take this post how you'd like, but I'm confident about it. While I've been awful at guessing how many wins we'll have each season, I have typically been pretty spot on about some other stuff. I am confident about this post. that's all I'm going to say on the matter until it plays out later this year.
 
netflixnchildres said:
Valid point, the hope is Wake is enticing enough an opportunity to them.
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Arizona State enticed his predecessor who had much bigger name recognition than Oats. I would hope we could make as good of a pitch to Oats as ASU did to Hurley.
 
I don't have any inside info whatsoever, but I would be shocked if Manning came back. We've given him 5 years, so that's not an issue. We have no amazing recruiting classes lined up. He isn't young and hasn't exhibited any kind of growth or improvement as a coach or any reason to think things will change. The only reason to keep him is if we simply don't have the funds to fire him and hire someone new, but I suspect that won't ultimately be an issue.
 
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