• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Official 2018-19 NBA Season Thread - NBA Finals Raptors Win #WeTheNorth

Obviously I too thought it was a bad trade for the Hawks, but here are my non-stat observations:

* Trae looked more like a young Steph Curry than anybody that has come since; I was not expecting that despite his frosh year at OU
* Luka needs to slim down. He's fine at 20 playing at that body type, but if he wants to still be playing in 15 years, he's got to transform his body

The Hawks wanted to tank the year and Trae's horrific start last year enabled that. Obviously, Dallas got what they wanted - the centerpiece to build a team around for the next decade.
 
Milhouse said:
it’s not a debate but sweet cherry picked stats from ph. that was awesome.
Click to expand...

LOL. Pts, reb, ast from their 30 or so most recent games isn’t “cherry picked.”
 
DeacdeTejas said:
Offense alone maybe. Trae was dead last in the NBA in DRPM. Real Plus Minus, Luka was 88th in league and Young was 421 (out of 513). And if you look at RPM wins, which estimates the number of wins each player contributes to his team's win total during a season, Doncic ranks 59th in the league (6.33 wins), while Young ranks 260th (0.70 wins). Doncic also is fourth rookie in NBA history to have at least seven triple-doubles. The others include Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson and Ben Simmons, who had 12 a year ago. Doncic is also just one of five players this season to average at least 21 points, seven rebounds and 5 assists per game, including Giannis Antetokoumpo, LeBron James, Blake Griffin and Russell Westbrook.

Doncic also had a team of horrible shooters and Id imagine the edge Trae had there in assists would have been far less if not even if the Mavs had more than one player who averaged more than 35% from three. (The Hawks had 5 who shot better than 35%)

I dont even know why this is a debate
Click to expand...

The numbers are what they are because Trae was AWFUL to start the season. Looking at the whole year, Luka was far better. Shouldn't be surprising the guy that was killing the best European league was better prepared for the NBA than the college kid. And Trae is bad on defense and his defensive ceiling is low. But people are sleeping on how outrageously good Trae was offensively the last 3 months of the season. Not a knock on Luka, he's incredible. I'd rather have either of them than essentially anybody else drafted from 2015-2018.
 
jaybone said:
Obviously I too thought it was a bad trade for the Hawks, but here are my non-stat observations:

* Trae looked more like a young Steph Curry than anybody that has come since; I was not expecting that despite his frosh year at OU
* Luka needs to slim down. He's fine at 20 playing at that body type, but if he wants to still be playing in 15 years, he's got to transform his body

The Hawks wanted to tank the year and Trae's horrific start last year enabled that. Obviously, Dallas got what they wanted - the centerpiece to build a team around for the next decade.
Click to expand...

Word is Luka has lost about 15 lbs and is in much better shape. I agree that he needs to be in good shape to have a long career with his skillset
 
jaybone said:
Obviously I too thought it was a bad trade for the Hawks, but here are my non-stat observations:

* Trae looked more like a young Steph Curry than anybody that has come since; I was not expecting that despite his frosh year at OU
* Luka needs to slim down. He's fine at 20 playing at that body type, but if he wants to still be playing in 15 years, he's got to transform his body

The Hawks wanted to tank the year and Trae's horrific start last year enabled that. Obviously, Dallas got what they wanted - the centerpiece to build a team around for the next decade.
Click to expand...

Why don't you think logically about the trade for the Hawks rather than emotionally?

What are the Hawks' two biggest weaknesses? Defense and experience

What does this trade bring? Two starters who play great defense and have a lot of experience.

What are the Hawks giving up? Huerter will be beaten out by Cam Reddish by mid-season at the latest or it was a bad pick. If the Hawks make the playoffs, the draft choice is of marginal value. Hunter should become a very good player. You have to give up something to get something, but even with this trade the Hawks will have $25M+ to get a star player with Hunter's slot.

Is Capela overpaid? The reality is he is an absolute bargain in today's NBA. By mid-July, his top pay over the next four seasons will be about $3-5M less than any other Top 10 rebounder in the NBA makes in 19-20. There salaries go up while his is set and he's young. If the Hawks have any hope about contending they need a defensive stopper in the middle who rebounds. To get one, they would have to pay more than Capela's under-market locked in salary.

Hunter was picked for his potential to be a 3 & D guy. Tucker was up for Defensive POY and as stated the Hawks will still have a max slot for a player at this position. By having, proven players and young studs, they become a much better destination for a key FA.

I completely understand the lazy, "RJ has to be wrong", but if you actually thought about it, the Hawks would be the biggest winners in this trade.
 
RJKarl said:
Why don't you think logically about the trade for the Hawks rather than emotionally?

What are the Hawks' two biggest weaknesses? Defense and experience

What does this trade bring? Two starters who play great defense and have a lot of experience.

What are the Hawks giving up? Huerter will be beaten out by Cam Reddish by mid-season at the latest or it was a bad pick. If the Hawks make the playoffs, the draft choice is of marginal value. Hunter should become a very good player. You have to give up something to get something, but even with this trade the Hawks will have $25M+ to get a star player with Hunter's slot.

Is Capela overpaid? The reality is he is an absolute bargain in today's NBA. By mid-July, his top pay over the next four seasons will be about $3-5M less than any other Top 10 rebounder in the NBA makes in 19-20. There salaries go up while his is set and he's young. If the Hawks have any hope about contending they need a defensive stopper in the middle who rebounds. To get one, they would have to pay more than Capela's under-market locked in salary.

Hunter was picked for his potential to be a 3 & D guy. Tucker was up for Defensive POY and as stated the Hawks will still have a max slot for a player at this position. By having, proven players and young studs, they become a much better destination for a key FA.

I completely understand the lazy, "RJ has to be wrong", but if you actually thought about it, the Hawks would be the biggest winners in this trade.
Click to expand...

Just stop. I'm not being emotional at all. I am looking at how Golden State built their team and how the Celtics and Philly built their teams before going after FAs or trading talent for experience. I am also reading a slew of The Atlantic articles and I am practically parroting what Atl writers after interviewing the GM are saying.

The message is that you never really know if Deandre Hunter is going to be PJ Tucker good or Jimmy Butler good. We'll know more in a year. We'll know a lot in 3. You don't trade that upside for PJ Tucker. That is his low bar.

Plus, if you are going to go after this dead horse at least scroll up and quote a relevant post. We're talking Luka Trae today, not trading away all the assets you spent years collecting for PJ Tucker + a 6'10" version of Dennis Schroeder (hair-wise anyway).
 
RJ I actually agree with you on Capelas contract and value. But I still think your proposed trade is really stupid for Hawks. They have positioned themselves very well. They have young budding stars, and lots of tradeable assets and future cap space. They dont need to waste all of that on Tucker and Capela. If they were closer to a title now, I could see them making your trade. But they aren't, and your trade will hamper their process
 
DeacdeTejas said:
RJ I actually agree with you on Capelas contract and value. But I still think your proposed trade is really stupid for Hawks. They have positioned themselves very well. They have young budding stars, and lots of tradeable assets and future cap space. They dont need to waste all of that on Tucker and Capela. If they were closer to a title now, I could see them making your trade. But they aren't, and your trade will hamper their process
Click to expand...

They aren't even "wasting" half of what they have on Capela and Tucker. The reality is Capela is the perfect center for that team. He already knows how to play PnR (he could do it with Young on the weakside setting picks with JC to free either of them up). He's an elite defender. The Hawks are the worst team in the NBA on D. He's an elite rebounder. He's among the Top 5 centers in running the court.

Add to that his experience is what the Hawks need and his contract is cheap and totally locked in.

And the Hawks will still have big bucks to fill another hole.
 
PhDeac said:
LOL. Pts, reb, ast from their 30 or so most recent games isn’t “cherry picked.”
Click to expand...

lol of course it is. you picked the sample size that is most favorable to trae young, and you also ignored all the defensive stats.
 
jaybone said:
Just stop. I'm not being emotional at all. I am looking at how Golden State built their team and how the Celtics and Philly built their teams before going after FAs or trading talent for experience. I am also reading a slew of The Atlantic articles and I am practically parroting what Atl writers after interviewing the GM are saying.

The message is that you never really know if Deandre Hunter is going to be PJ Tucker good or Jimmy Butler good. We'll know more in a year. We'll know a lot in 3. You don't trade that upside for PJ Tucker. That is his low bar.

Plus, if you are going to go after this dead horse at least scroll up and quote a relevant post. We're talking Luka Trae today, not trading away all the assets you spent years collecting for PJ Tucker + a 6'10" version of Dennis Schroeder (hair-wise anyway).
Click to expand...

You aren't trading PJ Tucker for Hunter. You are trading PJ Tucker for Kevin Huerter (an extra piece). You are trading the potential of Hunter for the reality of Capela, who will fill the team's biggest need immediately.

You're so right. Next year. if the Hawks stay pat, there is a 10% chance the Hawks make the playoffs and lots of people will want to play for a mediocre team in a second rate market for a franchise that gave up the COY versus being the last piece in a team that has shown they are bold, have made the playoffs and still have $25-30M to pay someone.
 
Milhouse said:
lol of course it is. you picked the sample size that is most favorable to trae young, and you also ignored all the defensive stats.
Click to expand...

He clearly sucks on D. That’s why the Hawks got an elite wing defender.

Don’t act like pts, reb, and asts are some obscure cherry picked stats.
 
pbah8Ik.png


Luka had a significantly better season than Trae. I highlighted the important parts at least as far as I read them.

Very close in terms of TS%, within a margin that Trae's minutes played probably gives him the edge. But Luka is taking more threes and getting more FTs. Also surprised to see Luka with a higher usage rate since the Mavs were a lot better than the Hawks. The VORP also really, really stands out, taking in defense.

Trae's really impressive stat to me is his assist rate (on a bad team). Luka is creating more for himself than Trae, Trae creating more for his team than Luka. Trae should take more threes, and hopefully if team defense gets better they can hide his (bad) defense better in the numbers.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
just zero capacity for long-term thinking shown here
Click to expand...

You couldn't be more wrong. By having a successful team, you build long-term more solidly. Better players will want to come and stay.

But if you keep on improving incrementally and have no history with your franchise, you are doomed to mediocrity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top