Matta a no brainer. After that we get into this same old silly mid-major debate that is an inexact science. In that scenario, I'm on board with Kelsey. Not getting the Xavier job shouldn't be a concern. He backed out of UMass because it wasn't right. Bad look, but I can't blame him. I'm convinced if the UMass thing doesn't happen, he's the HC at Xavier right now. Can we parse every stat here and there and convince ourselves one guy is better than another? Sure. But the reality all of it is a crap shoot. Absolutely no way you can prove that at the P6 level Rhodes or Forbes would be better than Kelsey or Miller. Can't prove it. If there is evidence any of these guys can coach and recruit, they are viable and becomes a gamble no matter what. The Prosser tree has proven to work...why would we go after random mid-major guy instead of what's so obvious? Kelsey would be such a breath of fresh air, imo. There's a graveyard full of mid-major coaches that everyone thought was a sure thing (ie, Shaka Smart). So if we're going to gamble, why overthink it? I'm in on Kelsey. Plus he actually has Top 25 win this year.
Danny Manning replacement search thread
- Thread starter netflixnchildres
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
Matta a no brainer. After that we get into this same old silly mid-major debate that is an inexact science. In that scenario, I'm on board with Kelsey. Not getting the Xavier job shouldn't be a concern. He backed out of UMass because it wasn't right. Bad look, but I can't blame him. I'm convinced if the UMass thing doesn't happen, he's the HC at Xavier right now. Can we parse every stat here and there and convince ourselves one guy is better than another? Sure. But the reality all of it is a crap shoot. Absolutely no way you can prove that at the P6 level Rhodes or Forbes would be better than Kelsey or Miller. Can't prove it. If there is evidence any of these guys can coach and recruit, they are viable and becomes a gamble no matter what. The Prosser tree has proven to work...why would we go after random mid-major guy instead of what's so obvious? Kelsey would be such a breath of fresh air, imo. There's a graveyard full of mid-major coaches that everyone thought was a sure thing (ie, Shaka Smart). So if we're going to gamble, why overthink it? I'm in on Kelsey. Plus he actually has Top 25 win this year.
WakeForest Fan
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2011
- Messages
- 8,946
- Reaction score
- 1,745
a pile of shit is better
Or we can interpret the Anthony Grant thing as he's better suited outside the P6. Dayton is a mid-major. Some coaches are better at that level. Grant seems to be one. Shaka too.
I think it has to be Matta. It will complete the circle of life.
Matta Butlerizes us in 2001 —> Odom leaves —> Skip leaves Xavier for Wake —> Matta leaves Butler for Xavier —> CP3 nut punches —> Matta steals Oden/Conley from Wake —> Skip dies —> 10 years of futility —> Matta returns to save us, beating WVU, OSU, Xavier, and Butler on the way to the championship. 30for30 is called “Whole Lotta Matta” and is directed by RJKarl and bankrolled by Welch’s grape juice.
Matta Butlerizes us in 2001 —> Odom leaves —> Skip leaves Xavier for Wake —> Matta leaves Butler for Xavier —> CP3 nut punches —> Matta steals Oden/Conley from Wake —> Skip dies —> 10 years of futility —> Matta returns to save us, beating WVU, OSU, Xavier, and Butler on the way to the championship. 30for30 is called “Whole Lotta Matta” and is directed by RJKarl and bankrolled by Welch’s grape juice.
Last edited:
Deaconblue
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2011
- Messages
- 19,825
- Reaction score
- 3,433
Ohio State and Matta had a very bad parting of the ways, including lawsuits. The end result was Matta "retired" for health reasons an tOSU agreed to pay him monthly checks until May 2020, or until he got another job. He was obligated to "seek other comparable employment". Hence the interviews with Georgia etc in the past few years.
This spring will tell the tale of how much he really has health issues, and how much he wants to coach. He is looking at his first summer without a check if nothing changes. Of course, he should have a nice sum in the bank. Does he interview seriously, with an eye toward finding a new place to coach for the 2020-2021 season and beyond, or is he content to continue to relax and live off what he has made.
The answer to the questions will not be known publicly until April or May.
This spring will tell the tale of how much he really has health issues, and how much he wants to coach. He is looking at his first summer without a check if nothing changes. Of course, he should have a nice sum in the bank. Does he interview seriously, with an eye toward finding a new place to coach for the 2020-2021 season and beyond, or is he content to continue to relax and live off what he has made.
The answer to the questions will not be known publicly until April or May.
CreamyGoodness
Thanks Creamy!
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2011
- Messages
- 15,741
- Reaction score
- 5,677
Yes please
I think highly of Kelsey and at one time I thought he was a rising star but Winthrop seems to have stagnated the last 3 years. He failed to win 20 games in either of the last 2 years and looks unlikely to do so again this year. This in one of the weakest D1 conferences at the school that is arguably the best job in that league.
A name that doesn’t get mentioned here is Scott Nagy at Wright State. He took over a down program with minimal tradition and won 20, 24, and 25 his 1st 3 years. This year 17-4. Before that he had a great run at SD State. I just don’t see how Pat’s resume stacks up anywhere close to Nagy. Not saying Nagy is necessarily our guy but saying we need to look beyond guys with ties to Wake. The experienced mid-major hire has been very good to us in football (Grobe and Clawson). I think it can work in hoops also.
A name that doesn’t get mentioned here is Scott Nagy at Wright State. He took over a down program with minimal tradition and won 20, 24, and 25 his 1st 3 years. This year 17-4. Before that he had a great run at SD State. I just don’t see how Pat’s resume stacks up anywhere close to Nagy. Not saying Nagy is necessarily our guy but saying we need to look beyond guys with ties to Wake. The experienced mid-major hire has been very good to us in football (Grobe and Clawson). I think it can work in hoops also.
Azdeac
Well-known member
This is my point. Nagy? Seriously? I'm sure he's good...I don't mean to be disrespectful at all. It's just that this is exactly my point...we can talk ourselves into any random mid-major guy and it becomes just a bunch of white noise...how about this guy? And what about that guy? Ugh. Kelsey's so obviously a perfect fit...I don't need to talk myself into it.
https://winthropeagles.com/news/202...nt-gift-from-ish-smith-family-foundation.aspx
So a guy who can’t win the weakest D1 league in the country is an obvious choice for an ACC job? Do you think Pat’s resume gets him a job at any other P6 school? Even an interview? I don’t think you can make an objective case for Pat over Miller either. The results just aren’t there. He needs to get a stepping stone job before warranting consideration for an ACC job. At least that’s my opinion. I respect your right to differ.
I think earlier I accidentally said Beilein, Kelsey, Miller. I definitely would rather have Wes over Kelsey. The results are there. He’s been a winner. If we were to hire him, we would definitely have to ask, “Will you be committed to Wake Forest, or are you going to go to Carolina immediately if offered?” If he’s committed to Wake Forest he’s our guy. If not, then we move on. It wouldn’t be worth having him if he comes to Wake for a few years and then goes to Carolina. It would be a bad look for our program. If Matta wanted to coach, my order would be Beilein, Miller, Matta, Kelsey. But I just don’t think that’s realistic given what happened at OSU.
One things for sure, I would be pissed off if Currie went out and hired Shaka. I know there is a relationship there, but it needs to be more than just a guy you know. Build a relationship with a winner. Hiring a coach should not be based on who your buddy is. Shaka hasn’t been the answer at Texas, so why would he be the answer at Wake Forest where we want to compete for the ACC every year.
First off, he has won that league. And Kelsey has proven he can recruit at the P6 level...has Miller? Has Nagy? Has Rhoades? Yes he should be considered for an ACC or a P6 job simply on years and years of P6 assistant coaching and recruituing experience alone.
WFU Lurker
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2014
- Messages
- 2,621
- Reaction score
- 185
Wasn't Ryan Odom your guy last year? UMBC humming along at 307th best team in the country.
I'm not sure I would take Nagy over Kelsey, but I do know that what Nagy did at South Dakota State is much more impressive than anything Kelsey has ever done.
shogun6066
Well-known member
That's actually very fair.
I'm simply not convinced that a guy that so quickly and easily abandoned everything that made him an attractive candidate would be a wise choice.
We've been in the wilderness for ten years already. Do we really want to spend five more hoping a guy that had no interest in us before turns out to work as a fucking retread?
shogun6066
Well-known member
Agreed. Not necessarily on Nagy, but the general point.
There's a shitload of looking backwards with this fucking fanbase.
BlackjackMc
Gil McGregor
Thad Matta. If you never ask, you never get. If he says yes, fire everyone and give him free rein to rebuild Wake Forest basketball.
If Matta says no...
Steve Forbes intrigues me. He has East Tennessee State in first place with a 6-1 record and is 17-3 overall. The previous four years his teams were 55-17 in conference and 100-39 overall. Prior to that he was an assistant to Greg Marshall at Wichita State for two years. The record there was 65-6 with an Elite Eight and a Sweet 16. He was head coach at NW Florida State for two years before WSU. His teams recorded a 62-6 record but lost in the D1 junior college national finals both years. He had spent five years as an assistant to Bruce Pearl from 2006-11. Those teams finished 123-53 and made the Dance four times. Two Sweet Sixteens and an Elite Eight were the result. Steve came to Tennessee after helping Billy Gillispie turn a 7-21 Texas A&M team into a two time NCAA participant with a 43-19 record. His first head coaching job was at Barton County CC. His three year record was 68-28. That is a lot of winning. 247-75 and counting as a head coach. 231-68 as an assistant. A lot of good NCAA tourney experience.
He's 54 years old, so I imagine he has one shot as a big time basketball head coach if he's lucky. Learned from very successful head coaches. Good recruiting history. Would be highly motivated to succeed. He probably has a lot of good contacts to create a BB staff. He might see the chance to turn around a once proud basketball program as the best opportunity of his life.
If Matta says no...
Steve Forbes intrigues me. He has East Tennessee State in first place with a 6-1 record and is 17-3 overall. The previous four years his teams were 55-17 in conference and 100-39 overall. Prior to that he was an assistant to Greg Marshall at Wichita State for two years. The record there was 65-6 with an Elite Eight and a Sweet 16. He was head coach at NW Florida State for two years before WSU. His teams recorded a 62-6 record but lost in the D1 junior college national finals both years. He had spent five years as an assistant to Bruce Pearl from 2006-11. Those teams finished 123-53 and made the Dance four times. Two Sweet Sixteens and an Elite Eight were the result. Steve came to Tennessee after helping Billy Gillispie turn a 7-21 Texas A&M team into a two time NCAA participant with a 43-19 record. His first head coaching job was at Barton County CC. His three year record was 68-28. That is a lot of winning. 247-75 and counting as a head coach. 231-68 as an assistant. A lot of good NCAA tourney experience.
He's 54 years old, so I imagine he has one shot as a big time basketball head coach if he's lucky. Learned from very successful head coaches. Good recruiting history. Would be highly motivated to succeed. He probably has a lot of good contacts to create a BB staff. He might see the chance to turn around a once proud basketball program as the best opportunity of his life.
Last edited:
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
Wake is now 43-123 in ACC play since we hired redacted. Also sitting at a fantastic 8-75 on the road in conference play over that period (3 of those wins came in 2017).
Forbes is a very intriguing candidate. His resume is terrific. The questions are around two issues. One, he was part of recruiting violations at Tennessee that got the staff fired. Second, he relies heavily on juco players at ETSU. He would have to be willing to embrace our admissions standards and focus solely on HS kids and possibly a few transfers. Currie worked with him at Tennessee so he no doubt has a strong opinion on him one way or the other. If he checks out ok after vetting these 2 areas then I think he would be a great choice.
Buttermaker
Well-known member
Bears repeating.
There should be looking backwards. Otherwise we're just another P6 school...with difficult academics, a small student body, and an aging off-campus arena. Embracing Coach Odom and Coach Prosser, Timmy D, CP3, and other NBA stars...that's what differentiates us and overcomes some of the limitations. To turn our back on the past and not embrace folks with WF ties, or guys who understand our unique culture and situation, in search of "random mid-major guy" is a fools errand, in my opinion.
If we can get Thad Matta, great! That's a no-brainer. Beilein similarly a no-brainer. These are guys with proven track records at the highest levels. When we shift to the mid-major pool, folks on here that dismiss Wake connected folks and think some deep-dive into KenPom is the magic sauce for hiring the next great one, you're kidding yourself. It is an inexact science and there are plenty of examples of the shiny new thing with stellar resumes crashing and burning at the P6 level. From the mid-major ranks, in addition to a resume, we need someone who understands how special and unique Wake is. That is perhaps Kelsey or Miller with direct connections. Or it could be someone whose past indicates they would fit. Someone like Nagy becomes the avatar for my point...his entire career has been at state schools in the upper midwest/west, with no P6 experience in over 30 years. He has no natural connection to Wake and there are absolutely no indications he'd understand our unique atmosphere and situation.