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FUCK YOU, RON WELLMAN

PhDeac said:
Football: Sticking with Caldwell long after it was clear he wasn't cut out to be an ACC coach at that time in his career. Signing Grobe to a "lifetime" contract and not demanding the staff changes necessary to keep moving the football program forward.

Men's Basketball: Giving Dino a three year contract after Skip passed. That was a good time to just turn the page on the Prosser era and hire an experienced head coach. It's rare that a team gets to hire a new coach with good recruits waiting in the wings. The standard way to handle that difficult situation and rough timing would be to assign an interim head coach and hire a new coach. Then Wellman compounded that by giving Dino an extension before firing him 6 months later. Then obviously the next two coaches.

Women's basketball: Everything. There's no excuse why Wake can't have a competitive women's basketball program. It's not even a decent program. It's got to be one of the worst if not the worse major conference program over the last 30 years.

I don't follow revenue sports like others have, but it's a shame that Field Hockey has fallen off. From what people here have posted much of that is specifically due to Wellman overreacting to some incident years ago. It's still a good program, but not what it was. Jen Averill is the greatest coach in Wake Forest history. She was here before Wellman and could probably be here for another 10+ years.
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I agree on Caldwell, although I’d call that one a minor sin. And I would also agree with including the Dino fiasco in with the current state of b-ball misery. The others you mention, like women’s b-ball and field hockey, I know nothing about.
 
How did Dino’s extension affect us? “Everyone” acted like we were financially hamstrung because of the buyout of the extension. Didn’t it end up being small change?
 
Aside from our AD firing a guy 6 months after giving him and extension and telling media that it was for stuff that happened before the extension?
 
Tobacco Road said:
How did Dino’s extension affect us? “Everyone” acted like we were financially hamstrung because of the buyout of the extension. Didn’t it end up being small change?
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Who knows? Is this why Brad Stevens laughed at our offer?
 
PhDeac said:
Aside from our AD firing a guy 6 months after giving him and extension and telling media that it was for stuff that happened before the extension?
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Nobody cares about that. Everyone knows that coaches get "extensions' towards the end of a contract, not the very end, for the appearance of stability. Ultimately, I am really interested in if it had any financial impact. Were we on the hook for any significant amount of additional money because of the extension? I still have a sliver of emotional investment and want to believe that past contracts could be a predictor of more recent. A lot of people complained about how we committed ourselves to so much money by extending Dino that we didn't have money to offer a new coach what it would take. I thought I remembered somebody following up when we had the filings that it was a pittance. So, that board hysteria would have been wrong. I'm holding out hope that maybe the Goodman reporting is off base. So many seem ready to believe that the AD had a secret, and misleading, messaging campaign to smear Dino but not many seem willing to accept that someone may have leaked inaccurate info to Goodman.
I don't know anything on this. I am just a defeated Deacon fan wanting to think there might be some hope to bring me back.
 
I'm not talking about the financial aspect. Just the poor management plus the slandering that didn't line up with the timeline.
 
Tobacco Road said:
Nobody cares about that. Everyone knows that coaches get "extensions' towards the end of a contract, not the very end, for the appearance of stability. Ultimately, I am really interested in if it had any financial impact. Were we on the hook for any significant amount of additional money because of the extension? I still have a sliver of emotional investment and want to believe that past contracts could be a predictor of more recent. A lot of people complained about how we committed ourselves to so much money by extending Dino that we didn't have money to offer a new coach what it would take. I thought I remembered somebody following up when we had the filings that it was a pittance. So, that board hysteria would have been wrong. I'm holding out hope that maybe the Goodman reporting is off base. So many seem ready to believe that the AD had a secret, and misleading, messaging campaign to smear Dino but not many seem willing to accept that someone may have leaked inaccurate info to Goodman.
I don't know anything on this. I am just a defeated Deacon fan wanting to think there might be some hope to bring me back.
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I think people cared about that. I mean most posters on this board have like 200+ level basketball IQs, so they all saw why Dino should be fired. But the rest of the world doesn't pay that close attention and couldn't figure out why we fired a coach with two NCAA appearances out of three years, especially right after extending him. It just made a bad look look worse is all.

And yeah, extensions happen all the time, but how often are they followed by a firing before the next year even starts? Bad leadership, bad look.
 
PhDeac said:
I'm not talking about the financial aspect. Just the poor management plus the slandering that didn't line up with the timeline.
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If not financially, how did the extension affect us? I still don't think it did and you still haven't said how it would. You've just used different words to describe it. No suggested outcomes. Nobody cares the we extended a coach and then fired him. That's standard. The extension did nothing unless it committed us to additional money we needed elsewhere. Many seemed to suggest that after his firing.

Anyone remember what the payout for Dino's buyout was?
 
I don't see how the extension didn't add to the payout to Dino. Isn't that what extensions do? Also disagree that no one cared and it doesn't matter outside of finance.
 
Tobacco Road said:
If not financially, how did the extension affect us? I still don't think it did and you still haven't said how it would. You've just used different words to describe it. No suggested outcomes. Nobody cares the we extended a coach and then fired him. That's standard. The extension did nothing unless it committed us to additional money we needed elsewhere. Many seemed to suggest that after his firing.

Anyone remember what the payout for Dino's buyout was?
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Not sure what outcomes you're looking for. It made us look bad.
 
I assume the extension added to the buyout but I don't know. Maybe all parties agreed they needed to extend for the sake of perception, but there was no additional guarantee in the event of dismissal. Either way, any addition wasn't much, as the buyout was a nothing burger. Yet, the board experts made a bit deal about how we were paying Dino so much for so many years.

Message boards idiots (including myself) are going to bitch about meaningless things.

Ph, why are you asking me what outcomes? You tell me. You are the one criticizing it. I don't think it affected any outcomes worth measuring which is why I think it is meaningless. By what outcome do you think it mattered? Because message board nerds complained about it?
If we had hired correctly, the "extension" is meaningless. I don't think the buyout had any influence on our ability to replace Dino. Do you? Does anyone think the buyout hampered our ability to hire a better coach? I don't think any coaches were thinking, "man, I want to take this Wake gig, but they just extended Dino."
I thought most of the bitching on the exension was motivated by the sentiment that we had so much money committed to Dino that we couldn't afford a good coach. I don't think that proved to be the case. I didn't think people actually cared that we gave a meaningless extension and then fired him. Looks like I was wrong.
 
I ask because I gave you outcomes yet you keep asking for them. You claim I didn't answer the question because you disagree with the answer. Actually I'm not sure you even read my answer. The key is that Wellman fired Dino and then the word to the media if that it was for "culture" reasons that happened before the extension.
 
PhDeac said:
Football: Sticking with Caldwell long after it was clear he wasn't cut out to be an ACC coach at that time in his career. Signing Grobe to a "lifetime" contract and not demanding the staff changes necessary to keep moving the football program forward.

Men's Basketball: Giving Dino a three year contract after Skip passed. That was a good time to just turn the page on the Prosser era and hire an experienced head coach. It's rare that a team gets to hire a new coach with good recruits waiting in the wings. The standard way to handle that difficult situation and rough timing would be to assign an interim head coach and hire a new coach. Then Wellman compounded that by giving Dino an extension before firing him 6 months later. Then obviously the next two coaches.

Women's basketball: Everything. There's no excuse why Wake can't have a competitive women's basketball program. It's not even a decent program. It's got to be one of the worst if not the worse major conference program over the last 30 years.

I don't follow revenue sports like others have, but it's a shame that Field Hockey has fallen off. From what people here have posted much of that is specifically due to Wellman overreacting to some incident years ago. It's still a good program, but not what it was. Jen Averill is the greatest coach in Wake Forest history. She was here before Wellman and could probably be here for another 10+ years.
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Actually firing you should add firing both Greer [after 1 losing season] & Odom [after no losing seasons and averaging 20 wins per season in his tenure] and then Prosser was probably ready to get fired after finishing dead last & next to last in 2006 & 2007 [but given RW's propensity for not firing his own hires, this was not going to happen. Even if Skip could not win games in the post season. But actually Dino was doing a great job and had a 61-31 record and did win a NCAA tourney game in his time at Wake. The reason to keep him was not that we had great recruits in the wings because they were not in retrospect. But Dino could coach basketball and ever since we have been stuck in the mud.
 
Odom was not fired not matter what some people here try to say. My understanding was that Odom basically gambled on having a senior laden team to increase his dreal. His bluff was called and he was going into the final year of his deal with very little leverage. He skipped town for the school with the name of a state in it.
 
TheReff said:
Actually firing you should add firing both Greer [after 1 losing season] & Odom [after no losing seasons and averaging 20 wins per season in his tenure] and then Prosser was probably ready to get fired after finishing dead last & next to last in 2006 & 2007 [but given RW's propensity for not firing his own hires, this was not going to happen. Even if Skip could not win games in the post season. But actually Dino was doing a great job and had a 61-31 record and did win a NCAA tourney game in his time at Wake. The reason to keep him was not that we had great recruits in the wings because they were not in retrospect. But Dino could coach basketball and ever since we have been stuck in the mud.
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Says the one man in SEVEN BILLION on Earth whom Skip didn't like.
 
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