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Non-Political Coronavirus Thread

These are the outcomes we were hoping for. Glad you're feeling better.
 
so if you're sick and healing up, OBVIOUSLY that proves that the vaccine was a WASTE OF TIME
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
My symptoms until Friday were just runny nose and cough, and working at a school and both my girls in day care, I get a cold every other month right now. It wasn’t until Friday that I had the fatigue and lost my sense of smell. Still don’t have a fever. Currently quarantined in my bedroom.
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Definitely sounds like covid, Hope you have a fast recovery.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Thanks. Lost my sense of smell, but Friday PCR test came back negative, but because I took it only 3 days after exposure I have to get another test today. Hopefully this will be a rapid test.
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I had the same symptoms. Just a cold and cough, then lost my sense of taste and smell about 6 days after the onset. My test came back negative, but it's possible I waited too long to get tested. I still don't fully have taste and smell back and still have a lot of fatigue. But the worst is over
 
Buddy of mine has a breakthrough case. M-I-L brought it home, and 4 of the 5 members of their family have popped positive (including both parents, each of whom was fully vaxx'd). Only one spared was the 2 year old.

He was getting his Rogan cocktail on doctor's orders and the nurse told him "Half of our therapeutic patients were fully vaccinated." Not good.

What say you health care Deacs? Is the protection wearing off, or does the protection against severe illness carry forward?

OTOH, this article says the worst is behind us. If we go get children-aged vaccines approved and the holdouts all gave each other delta, we might back into herd immunity whether we like it or not.
 
even if protection against infection is wearing off, the breakdown of vaxxed vs. non-vaxxed among the ICU'ed and dead is staggering
 
Protection against severe illness still appears quite strong based on many data points from all over the world. That a higher percentage of hospitalized patients are vaccinated in areas with high vaccination rates is a perfect example of the base rate fallacy. It's exactly what we would expect to see with an effective vaccine (and I wish we had a high enough percentage of the population vaccinated here in the US for that to be the case).

That said, there clearly is some waning immunity, especially against mild infection. Who exactly will benefit the most from boosters (other than the elderly and those with severely compromised immune systems) and the degree of clinical benefit they provide is still not entirely clear, but I am probably at least a few weeks out of data with my knowledge there.
 
Also, if he is getting the cocktail Rogan got, he should get a new doctor.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
even if protection against infection is wearing off, the breakdown of vaxxed vs. non-vaxxed among the ICU'ed and dead is staggering
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Oh yeah, no argument there. My question is more if the uptick in baseless positives among the vaxx'd is evidence of mutation of the virus or exhaustion of immunity. Booster would only help with latter.
 
tiltdeac said:
Protection against severe illness still appears quite strong based on many data points from all over the world. That a higher percentage of hospitalized patients are vaccinated in areas with high vaccination rates is a perfect example of the base rate fallacy. It's exactly what we would expect to see with an effective vaccine (and I wish we had a high enough percentage of the population vaccinated here in the US for that to be the case).

That said, there clearly is some waning immunity, especially against mild infection. Who exactly will benefit the most from boosters (other than the elderly and those with severely compromised immune systems) and the degree of clinical benefit they provide is still not entirely clear, but I am probably at least a few weeks out of data with my knowledge there.
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Not totally sure I follow. Are you saying that in Tel Aviv, for instance, a higher % of hospitalizations are "vaccinated patients" because that mirrors the general pop (but the total number of hospitalizations are lower than would be with lower vax rates)? Sorry for the dumb.
 
WokeandBroke said:
Buddy of mine has a breakthrough case. M-I-L brought it home, and 4 of the 5 members of their family have popped positive (including both parents, each of whom was fully vaxx'd). Only one spared was the 2 year old.

He was getting his Rogan cocktail on doctor's orders and the nurse told him "Half of our therapeutic patients were fully vaccinated." Not good.

What say you health care Deacs? Is the protection wearing off, or does the protection against severe illness carry forward?

OTOH, this article says the worst is behind us. If we go get children-aged vaccines approved and the holdouts all gave each other delta, we might back into herd immunity whether we like it or not.
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I'm not a doctor. but I'm in the Pfizer study. So I'm not even close to the final word on this.

My understanding, based on the information that the doctor running the study has imparted, is that there are two things about the vaccine that keep us save: (1) training our B-cells to mount an immune response, and (2) an increase of antibodies.

If you have enough antibodies floating around in your blood, you can be exposed to the virus and not really get sick. When you first get the Pfizer vaccine, you have a shitload of these badasses just prowling around your blood. They aren't "smart" like B-cells, but there are a shitload of them and they do the job fast.

^^^ These are the things that are waning/reducing/becoming less as time goes by. Sometimes these are dropping like a rock, other folks seem to keep them around longer.

For the B-cells, they can and do mount an immune response to the virus, but they do so at a much slower rate than antibodies. So, you're going to get "sick" before the B-cells can churn out enough juice to fight off the virus. These guys are the reason that the breakthrough infections aren't as bad. Since the vaccine trains the B-cells to know what the virus looks like, it can mount the fight quicker than if they don't have a blueprint to work from.

^^^ These are not materially waning/reducing/becoming less as time goes by.
 
Donkey Deac Doug said:
I'm not a doctor. but I'm in the Pfizer study. So I'm not even close to the final word on this.

My understanding, based on the information that the doctor running the study has imparted, is that there are two things about the vaccine that keep us save: (1) training our B-cells to mount an immune response, and (2) an increase of antibodies.

If you have enough antibodies floating around in your blood, you can be exposed to the virus and not really get sick. When you first get the Pfizer vaccine, you have a shitload of these badasses just prowling around your blood. They aren't "smart" like B-cells, but there are a shitload of them and they do the job fast.

^^^ These are the things that are waning/reducing/becoming less as time goes by. Sometimes these are dropping like a rock, other folks seem to keep them around longer.

For the B-cells, they can and do mount an immune response to the virus, but they do so at a much slower rate than antibodies. So, you're going to get "sick" before the B-cells can churn out enough juice to fight off the virus. These guys are the reason that the breakthrough infections aren't as bad. Since the vaccine trains the B-cells to know what the virus looks like, it can mount the fight quicker than if they don't have a blueprint to work from.

^^^ These are not materially waning/reducing/becoming less as time goes by.
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Good info, thanks.
 
WokeandBroke said:
Not totally sure I follow. Are you saying that in Tel Aviv, for instance, a higher % of hospitalizations are "vaccinated patients" because that mirrors the general pop (but the total number of hospitalizations are lower than would be with lower vax rates)? Sorry for the dumb.
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Not dumb. The way this is being reported is not helpful. This is a good explainer. https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

TL/DR, even with an incredibly effective vaccine, as vaccination rates rise in a given population, the percentage of patients who get sick despite vaccination is going to rise too. The simplest hypothetical is to imagine a country that is literally 100% vaccinated. Of course then 100% of the hospitalized patients would be vaccinated. But the absolute number of hospitalized patients would be much lower than the counterfactual with a lower vaccination rate. That's why in Israel, even though over half of the people in the hospital have been vaccinated, that is still consistent with the vaccine being hugely beneficial against severe disease.
 
There are other factors too, of course (age disparities, previous infection providing immunity, etc). But base rates are super important. I think the case rate/100k broken down by age really makes the point well, from that link above

cf58cd_a5dbc0809c66454abdb05495bde22136~mv2.png
 
Awesome info. Thanks.

I am persuaded by my friend's argument that the rapid spread of Delta through the refusnik population has force-installed natural immunity throughout that pool of people. Eventually they're going to run out of friends to give it to. That, plus the rollout of the kiddie vax should bring the numbers down (pending no new variants). I am curious how close we are to backing into herd immunity despite ourselves.
 
The "pending no new variants" part is a big leap of faith.
 
weird thing about my breakthrough case is originally it was just like a normal fever/cold type thing, now like 3 weeks later the cough is coming on. Co-worker had a breakthrough case and it wasn't just like a fever, a month later still no smell, etc. It does make you concerned with long-lasting damage.
 
Journalism has a "both sides" bias that even manifests itself in health reporting. They can't help but to try to even up the "vaccines are working" and "vaccines are not working" sides.
 
43 year old female teacher here in our area just died - no known co-morbidities. 4 kids aged 7 to 17. She was vaccine hesitant - wanted more data. Tragically realized her mistake too late - called her husband from the hospital and told him to take the 17 yo to get vaccinated. I am tired of hearing these stories. Get your shot, people.
 
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