BillBrasky Memorial Political Chat Thread

[BillBrasky]

Yes, particularly here in NC. Doubtful they exist too much into the future.

That’s part of reasoning for leaving as well, the political winds (GOP greed and Dem cowardice/corruption) don’t make me very confident that I’ll receive much of a pension if I made it through another 20 years. Much rather cash out now and control my own retirement, I don’t trust our society to not fuck teachers over in the long run.

 

[BillBrasky]

That’s part of reasoning for leaving as well, the political winds (GOP greed and Dem cowardice/corruption) don’t make me very confident that I’ll receive much of a pension if I made it through another 20 years. Much rather cash out now and control my own retirement, I don’t trust our society to not fuck teachers over in the long run.

I’m only on year 5 in NC though, 7 overall, if I was closing in on year 20 it would be a lot harder to walk away like Mako said.

 

[Strickland33]

Huh, yes it’s a stupid career choice if you care about financial stability. Yes, it’s a stupid career choice if you like to feel valued and appreciated. My wife’s mother and aunt were a speech therapist and a teacher in NC public schools and forbade their children from going into teaching.

At this point, I can’t imagine why anyone would go into teaching today, especially in the South. The pay is not good, the legislature and jhmd are out to get you, society as a whole has an increasingly suspicious and negative view of you, you’re governed by moronic school boards, and the kids get shittier every month.

Who do I believe should be making these career choices ? The gullible obviously. I think that the only way people will go into teaching moving forward will be through college scholarships that require ten years of service for full tuition forgiveness. Absent that kind of incentive, I think there will be an unraveling of the public school system as it will eventually enter a death spiral. Those who can afford private school will send their kids there, while faith based charters will stick up a bunch of kids.

I think this kinda thing is why you received the response that you did, Biff. You're basically throwing up your hands and screaming "somebody do something !" while telling the people who are explaining to you why your perspective is a bit off base that they're idiots.

You don't have a solution, which is fine. I don't either, which is also fine. That doesn't mean that cops in uniform or national guard in uniform need to be teaching kids. If you listened to the content of what posters are saying to you, then you'll hear that there are a few issues.

First, teaching is hard.

Second, teaching is underappreciated.

Third, the idea that you can replace teachers with random public servants is pretty insulting considering points one and two. You're basically insinuating that it's teachers' jobs to babysit your kids. I don't know your politics exactly, but teachers' job descriptions are among the most contested issues historically and the trend has been to massively expand job responsibility while denying teachers security and pay. (I'm a third generation teacher, so I've been hearing these stories my whole life, so it's not really even that unique to the COVID-induced calamity that we have).

Four, it's fine to have cops, etc. babysit kids, but that's not the primary function of education, so while the kids will get some socialization, they won't get educated. Likewise, cops, etc. can babysit kids, but being in uniform with a badge and a gun seems to undercut the very real reality that a lot of kids, particularly kids from working class backgrounds and non-white kids, have super complicated relationships to law enforcement. I realize that's inconvenient to the narrative, but if the goal is to make sure that kids are well taken care of and educated, then the entire charade feels like cheap copaganda.

 

[Strickland33]

And I'll add that teaching is hard as a skilled profession. Just like you train to become an accountant or a lawyer - you train to become a teacher. You take classes, do practicums, get tons of advice, fall on your face, and get better.

The history of teaching as a profession reveals that, as Ph points out, the feminization of the occupation has created a weird blind spot in contemporary culture, where people don't seem to understand that teaching is a skilled and grossly under-compensated profession. Stakeholders from all sides, from parents to administration, are constantly trying to erode your autonomy and dignity as a worker while you're just trying to get through the day and do right by your students.

 

[DeacHead]

#anecdote - one of my neighbors is a gym teacher at a local elementary school and likes to talk about how much she makes (like JH if you DM him -- super cool!), and says she currently makes $120k and will get $8k per month in pension. She is in her early/mid 40s and has been a gym teacher since he early/mid 20s.

So, some of you teacher-folk should move to my city.

I have a good friend that's a high school teacher here in MA has very similar numbers across the board. She's mid-40s, been at it for 20+ years now. Her current economic status is comfortable and her retirement prognosis looks better than mine, at least a lot less subject to market volatility.

 

[Strickland33]

I have a good friend that's a high school teacher here in MA has very similar numbers across the board. She's mid-40s, been at it for 20+ years now. Her current economic status is comfortable and her retirement prognosis looks better than mine, at least a lot less subject to market volatility.

A lot of this is generational, though. Teachers in a post-Great Recession world are almost in a different occupation from folks who started prior.

 

[Tobacco Road]

I want to apologize for calling teachers whiny (particularly those in NC & SC) last week.
The more I have read and listened to the conditions and the personnel shortage, it's a damn shame that in such an honorable profession, teachers are leaving in droves and the profession fails to attract the talent needed to educate our young. And here in SC our Governor (who gives Mel Brooks a bad name) doesn't seem to get it.
It is a well known comment among us retirees who have moved here that we wouldn't have educated our young here.

That is big of you, Pop. Our teachers need our support and our kids need their teachers to have our support. I don't think there is a more important job.

 

[Tobacco Road]

It's a good thing Ph doesn't speak for me, because i don't think that. Him getting things wrong (in a way that makes him more virtuous, of course) isn't a reason to stop a good conversation.

I think you just described literally every job worth having. I'd like to tell you that there isn't an idealistic chapter of my career, or time spent away from family. I'm not diminishing what you are going through; in fact, I think I speak for most of us when I say I can relate to many of those issues.

I feel you, and I don't doubt any of this in the least and have always enjoyed getting the different perspective you bring to the tunnels so I can get some insight into a perspective that isn't my own, but how much money do you make, bro?

Pretty sure he just diminished what you are going through. I'm not sure any other way to interpret, "hey, everybody's job is like yours". Suck it up, buttercup, everybody's job requires them to show up for multiple duties outside their normal hours of work for free and everyone gets paid as little as you.
Except cops, we can't expect them to show up outside of their shift. We have to pay them well above the market right to come in to substitute.

 

[Biff Tannen]

I think this kinda thing is why you received the response that you did, Biff. You're basically throwing up your hands and screaming "somebody do something !" while telling the people who are explaining to you why your perspective is a bit off base that they're idiots.

You don't have a solution, which is fine. I don't either, which is also fine. That doesn't mean that cops in uniform or national guard in uniform need to be teaching kids. If you listened to the content of what posters are saying to you, then you'll hear that there are a few issues.

First, teaching is hard.

Second, teaching is underappreciated.

Third, the idea that you can replace teachers with random public servants is pretty insulting considering points one and two. You're basically insinuating that it's teachers' jobs to babysit your kids. I don't know your politics exactly, but teachers' job descriptions are among the most contested issues historically and the trend has been to massively expand job responsibility while denying teachers security and pay. (I'm a third generation teacher, so I've been hearing these stories my whole life, so it's not really even that unique to the COVID-induced calamity that we have).

Four, it's fine to have cops, etc. babysit kids, but that's not the primary function of education, so while the kids will get some socialization, they won't get educated. Likewise, cops, etc. can babysit kids, but being in uniform with a badge and a gun seems to undercut the very real reality that a lot of kids, particularly kids from working class backgrounds and non-white kids, have super complicated relationships to law enforcement. I realize that's inconvenient to the narrative, but if the goal is to make sure that kids are well taken care of and educated, then the entire charade feels like cheap copaganda.

I’m so glad you were able to explain everything to me.

You’re right that I don’t have a solution. Betsy Devos has a solution and a shit ton of money and can’t even make any headway, other than slowly eroding the public school system.

There are huge swaths of society that rely on public schools for daycare. You act like you’ve read my comments, but I in no way approve of using the police as anything other than a stopgap emergency effort to keep schools open and hope they come up with a better plan soon. I wouldn’t expect a lot of learning to occur in a class run by a cop, but if they can get 15 minutes of studying per hour, that’s as good as any substitute I ever had. This community seems fine with it and that’s their prerogative. If they tried to do that in my city, people would lose their shit and demand they get back on the street.

Some teachers are incompetent, others don’t give a shit anymore. My daughter’s Spanish teacher retired in the middle of the school year with no warning after faking it for a semester. And the school wasn’t able to replace her so they had an administrator, who used to teach French, hand out worksheets for half of the school year. I’ve seen teachers get fired for reasons other than sexual impropriety (and I’ve seen that too). My kids have had great teachers and bad teachers, at public schools and private schools, and I’ve watched them both come and go. I’ve seen teachers in the Atlanta Public Schools system systematically cheat on end of grade state exams, fixing their students tests so they could get a bonus. All this proves is that teachers are people too. Some are great and some of them fucking suck.

I’d love to see teachers make more money, be fairly evaluated, and stay in their jobs for decades, and not go into administration, which is where the real shitheads hide.

 

[Tobacco Road]

If only there was something we could do to attract more great ones and encourage them to stay in the profession.

 

[PhDeac]

If only there was something we could do to attract more great ones and encourage them to stay in the profession.

Maybe we could listen to teachers and address their concerns like you do when you respect them and want them to succeed.

 

[Deleted member 7528]

Crawl back in your hole, gollum.

Internet tough guy does internet tough guy things.

 

[Deleted member 7528]

Maybe we could listen to teachers and address their concerns like you do when you respect them and want them to succeed.

That's an interesting standard. Do you think that your party would get more support if they quit resisting ways to measure success?

Your "No need to measure here, everything's going great. Just take our word for it, and please keep sending more money" message isn't resonating for a reason.

 

[Deleted member 7528]

If only there was something we could do to attract more great ones and encourage them to stay in the profession.

One way to do that would be to show that there was a process to ensure you also purged the ones that aren't so great. Asking for market-unrecognizable job security, market-unrecognizable pensions/benefits packages BUT ALSO market-recognizable compensation isn't a consistent message.

 

[mako1331]

One way to do that would be to show that there was a process to ensure you also purged the ones that aren't so great. Asking for market-unrecognizable job security, market-unrecognizable pensions/benefits packages BUT ALSO market-recognizable compensation isn't a consistent message.

Teachers in NC actually contribute 1 percent more of their earnings to their pension than the national median average fwiw, so I'm not sure that's true. The benefits are below standard for comparable jobs in the private sector with similar education as well. And if there is unrecognizable job security, at this point I think it has come from the fact that the job is so unappealing that there is a significant labor shortage.

 

[BeachBumDeac]

Anyone who thinks teachers in NC have great benefits clearly hasn’t taken a look at the state insurance plan lately. $80 co pays FTL.

 

[Biff Tannen]

I mean, we say these kids have got to learn, but there’s nobody there to teach them. If we can’t understand that, how can we reach them? I guess maybe we can’t and we won’t. I guess we’re putting up a front. That’s how I know their lives are out of luck.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Teaching is such an unpopular profession that there is no competition for teaching jobs, and conservatives say that’s a job benefit. “Be grateful that we can’t fire you…because there’s no one to replace you…because your jobs sucks and nobody else wants to do it.”

 

[Biff Tannen]

Other states come to NC to host job fairs to poach teachers because the pay and conditions are that bad. NC actually recruits in Oklahoma, so that should tell you something. Not sure if they recruit the cops as substitutes.

 

[Biff Tannen]

There are teacher recruitment programs that bring in teachers from all over the world to teach in schools all over the US on H1B visas. NC uses these services to the point that the companies can’t bring in enough teachers to meet demand.