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Updates to the Joel?

DeacMan said:
Are you suggesting an indoor arena wouldn't be a multi-purpose facility?
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DeacMan said:
You mean we'd have an arena that couldn't host concerts, conferences and other athletic events? Seems odd.
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No. I meant "A new facility in that location would be very different than a typical campus multi-purpose facility."
 
They renamed Deacon Blvd for a reason.

In whatever building the Deacs play, the Joel or not, suspect it will remain in the same location.
 
DeacMan said:
Agree. Seems ridiculous you could buy that much land for $8M that close to campus.
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Doesn’t seem like you guys know that much about the neighborhood. Do you own real estate in the few blocks around the stadium. Most houses are worth 50k.

Here we bought land that literally hemorrhages 500k a year. As someone who actually banks money in this real estate market, I have not seen a worse buy in our market. To illustrate just how bad it was, no one would have paid 1 million for the land with that disaster on it. It will cost 500k just to rip it down. Ron Wellman is not a business man. He’s a washed up baseball coach who went to Bowling Green U. And his purchase here reflects that.
 
Do we not have an entire team of administrators and lawyers who handle multimillion dollar real estate transactions? Or is that reality inconvenient to the straw man? I’m not defending Wellman but defending Wake.

Then again, Manning contract…
 
DeacDaddy said:
Do we not have an entire team of administrators and lawyers who handle multimillion dollar real estate transactions? Or is that reality inconvenient to the straw man? I’m not defending Wellman but defending Wake.

Then again, Manning contract…
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Well someone on here posted that they weren't sure if we would be allowed to detonate a building we own. I'm sure no one on our team looked into that.
 
DeacDaddy said:
Do we not have an entire team of administrators and lawyers who handle multimillion dollar real estate transactions? Or is that reality inconvenient to the straw man? I’m not defending Wellman but defending Wake.

Then again, Manning contract…
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I had extremely good info on how the Wellman firing was done. Given what I heard, it was way more amateur than you would guess.
 
Ball State Deac said:
This is the largest shift I've seen on these board re the Joel. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but for years I thought people were arguing that the Joel was great and was sold out all the time when we were good. I remember sitting in an empty row in the upper bowl when we were ranked No. 1 in the country (or really high) against Va Tech.
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That makes sense if it was a weekend game right after the Illinois road game.

Illinois was a road game, on national tv, so we did what we often do in big games on the road - get destroyed or lose in embarrassing fashion.

I suspect nobody showed up the following weekend after that. If it was during the week, I am mis-remembering.
 
I mean how many parking spaces did we get with the Joel that generate $20 each 15-20 times a year.
 
morrison2951 said:
They renamed Deacon Blvd for a reason.

In whatever building the Deacs play, the Joel or not, suspect it will remain in the same location.
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If we're locked into this location, we need a way to connect the academic campus with the athletic campus.

Hear me out.... Monorail.
 
Wake Forest impact on Winston Salem was $3.3 billion last year. Why are we worried about a lousy $8 million for 30 acres? Fuck Well man. In reality Winston Salem should say..Let us build you a new arena. Wake Forest employs more people, generates more money, adds more culture than any entity in Forsyth County. It's not Durham. It's no where close to being like Greensboro. Wake Forest owns Winston Salem. Greensboro doesn't give a shit about UNCG. Winston Salem can't breath without Wake Forest.
 
The situation today is that Wake Forest owns
- 33 acres of land at the corner of University Parkway and Deacon Boulevard.
- The Lawrence Joel Veterans Memorial Coliseum.
- The memorial to Lawrence Joel and other veterans of Wars fought by the United States.
- the City of Winston- Salem retained naming rights and requires that "Lawrence Joel Veterans Memorial Coliseum " remain on the building facade and the marquee sign near University Parkway.

The price Wake paid is relevant only to the extent that those dollars are not available for other use. The quality of the deal from Wake's perspective is now unimportant as the sale closed years ago. Wake owns the land, the Joel and the Memorial. The city retained naming rights and limited what Wake can do with the Memorial.

Wake has been moving intercollegiate athletics game facilities to the Athletic complex along Deacon Boulevard for decades.

Football, men's and women's basketball, men's and wowomen's tennis and baseball all play their home intercollegiate games in those facilities.

That is a trend I don't see reversing anytime soon. More likely is that field hockey, soccer, and track and field venues move to the Athletic complex than any sports venue in the Athletics Complex moves back to the Reynolda campus.
 
Lost in the discussion on the Joel purchase is how much the athletic department was forking over on an annual basis as a tenant to lease the Joel for men's & women's hoops as well as other university events.

Anyone have this number?
 
donaldross said:
Don’t lose sight of the fact that Wellman unilaterally bought it. There were 0 other offer potential buyers so it was a horrible buy.

He wasted 8 million—which he’s done many times.

But that doesn’t mean we should lose for 30 more years because of the wasted 8 million. Losing on the regular costs you way more than that. It was a double bogey. Have to move on. Can’t compound it by making a quad.
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You've made this statement over and over and I don't know how accurate it is. I don't think we know what would have happened if we hadn't bought it. It is obviously better for us to own it and control what happens to it, than not. Was it worth $8M at the time, I don't really know and don't think you do either. The city may have had other options we don't know about - whether you want to admit it or not. They could have sold it to someone who would have torn it down and built something totally unrelated and we would have lost control over that piece of our planned athletic complex/neighborhood.

All that being said - what does it matter now? We are where we are and the question is what to do going forward. Questioning past decisions is a waste of time.
 
Random thought/question. How many sweet $400-500K condos could Wake sell on/near Deacon Blvd. Between wealthy alumni, parents, and other investors, I would think a bunch.
 
Colonel Angus said:
Lost in the discussion on the Joel purchase is how much the athletic department was forking over on an annual basis as a tenant to lease the Joel for men's & women's hoops as well as other university events.

Anyone have this number?
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Great point.
 
Scooter -- I agree completely that it matters not at all now.

It is 8 Million gone. No big deal.

The point is that it is no reason to compound the error/nonerror and be forced to retain it or build it or double down on it. There are no covenants recorded on the property. We can do whatever the hell we want with it.
 
tigerswood said:
Random thought/question. How many sweet $400-500K condos could Wake sell on/near Deacon Blvd. Between wealthy alumni, parents, and other investors, I would think a bunch.
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Or do similar to High Point and make a small hotel connected to the coliseum for fans coming in for a game. The next step in luxury suites. We need a big money donor with experience investing in hotel properties to pull it off, though. Oh well, opportunity missed.
 
donaldross said:
Scooter -- I agree completely that it matters not at all now.

It is 8 Million gone. No big deal.

The point is that it is no reason to compound the error/nonerror and be forced to retain it or build it or double down on it. There are no covenants recorded on the property. We can do whatever the hell we want with it.
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The point is that you made up the preposterous idea of Wellman doing an end around on the President and the BOT to bolster your argument.
 
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