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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

More likely that narrow minded people turn towards republican jesus because they really want to legislate their beliefs onto others and the actual teachings ascribed to him don't matter.
 
73deac said:
My response had no political motivation behind it. I simply think that you can be against abortion except for health of mother, rape, or incest and not hate or judge the person for having one. I sin as much as the next person and I can be forgiven the same as anyone no matter the sin. It’s a thin line to balance where you don’t agree with a persons actions but don’t judge or offer condemnation. I know that it’s not the case lots of times and narrow minded people will hate and turn people away from what Jesus taught
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Sure. I don’t think that’s particularly principled. That’s how things work in life. If you don’t want to do something, don’t do it but also don’t get in the way of other people doing it. I don’t drink Pepsi, but I don’t want to make Pepsi illegal or harder for people to get.

If you’re against abortion, don’t get an abortion. You can even work to help other people make the same choice you’d make. That’s fine. But don’t take that choice away or lie to make it more difficult for someone to make their choice.
 
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H.L. Mencken's description of Puritanism and Evangelical Christians in general: "Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy." He also had this to say about fundamentalist American Christianity in 1917: "The Puritan's utter lack of aesthetic sense, his distrust of all romantic emotion, his unmatchable intolerance of opposition, his unbreakable belief in his own bleak and narrow views, his savage cruelty of attack, his lust for relentless and barbarous persecution – these things have put an almost unbearable burden up on the exchange of ideas in the United States." That's about as accurate today as it was when he wrote it in 1917.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
unless He is gonna come down here and do something about this mess, it seems like God should just not care and let everyone into heaven
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free will.................Even though it's cliche and oversimplifed. Even though it is used as an "out" for why God can't be seen correcting every known problem in the universe, it's still the truth.
 
73deac said:
free will.................Even though it's cliche and oversimplifed. Even though it is used as an "out" for why God can't be seen correcting every known problem in the universe, it's still the truth.
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god is comfortable with free will as a basis for morality, but anti-abortion activists aren't?
 
Deacfreak07 said:
god is comfortable with free will as a basis for morality, but anti-abortion activists aren't?
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Ah… I mean, that’s a thin premise. Murder is illegal in every society. Whether you agree with it or not, you still have to acknowledge that there are many people who believe a fetus is a person, and the mother carrying that fetus is duty bound to protect it. Even the most liberal of us still seek to socially regulate pregnancy so that pregnant mothers don’t drink/smoke/do drugs, to protect the fetus from birth defects, and in that way we are protecting the future personhood of something that we don’t yet recognize as a person.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Ah… I mean, that’s a thin premise. Murder is illegal in every society. Whether you agree with it or not, you still have to acknowledge that there are many people who believe a fetus is a person, and the mother carrying that fetus is duty bound to protect it. Even the most liberal of us still seek to socially regulate pregnancy so that pregnant mothers don’t drink/smoke/do drugs, to protect the fetus from birth defects, and in that way we are protecting the future personhood of something that we don’t yet recognize as a person.
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Even murder is legal and justified under some circumstances is every society.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Ah… I mean, that’s a thin premise. Murder is illegal in every society. Whether you agree with it or not, you still have to acknowledge that there are many people who believe a fetus is a person, and the mother carrying that fetus is duty bound to protect it. Even the most liberal of us still seek to socially regulate pregnancy so that pregnant mothers don’t drink/smoke/do drugs, to protect the fetus from birth defects, and in that way we are protecting the future personhood of something that we don’t yet recognize as a person.
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My premise is that god is either not omnipotent, not just, or just lazy.
 
birdman said:
Even murder is legal and justified under some circumstances is every society.
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Absolutely, but accepting that murder framework for abortion (which I don’t) means legally limiting abortion to instances where pregnancy immediately threatens the life of the mother, right? Abortion isn’t murder, to me, but I understand that many anti-abortion people want to regulate abortion as if it were, and thats reasonable logic to hold if you believe fetus’s are people. That’s why the “if you don’t like abortion then don’t have one” logic doesn’t really work, because none of us would accept that framework for murder.
 
But even they don’t really accept the murder framework. “OK, you have 12 weeks to murder or you can murder under these circumstances.”

Plus these are people who celebrate other types of murder under sketchy circumstances like self-defense and domestic terrorism.
 
73deac said:
free will.................Even though it's cliche and oversimplifed. Even though it is used as an "out" for why God can't be seen correcting every known problem in the universe, it's still the truth.
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so god uses his free will to let people suffer
 
ImTheCaptain said:
so god uses his free will to let people suffer
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No. God gives us free will and his people gain earthly power to restrict our free will because that’s what they say God wants.
 
PhDeac said:
But even they don’t really accept the murder framework. “OK, you have 12 weeks to murder or you can murder under these circumstances.”
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to my knowledge all of those exceptions are individual political compromises between people with differing beliefs, not necessarily hypocrisies
 
These aren’t people known for compromising their religious or political beliefs.
 
The seriousness or logical consistency of the anti-abortion movement is immaterial. The entire debate is about personhood of a fetus and how long during justation do the pregnant mothers rights supercede the rights of the fetus.
 
The second sentence is about the logical consistency and seriousness of the movement.
 
Do they really truly believe a fetus is alive though? Look at the reaction between scenarios.

Scenario 1- You have people killing babies, 3 months olds, 6 month olds. Just freely murdering post birthed babies. Hundreds a day. What would the reaction be? Actually tangible action, you would immediately try to stop it no matter what others said.

Scenario 2- You believe a fetus is a baby, it’s being “murdered” what do you do? Write op-eds and work to stack a court to get a ruling that allows certain states to ban this murder while it freely takes place elsewhere. You continue to write strongly worded letters and live your life.

The only ones that truly believe abortion is murder are the ones that get arrested trying to stop it, the fire bombers of clinics, those are true believers the rest are just meh and used as a political and religious prop.
 
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